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#61
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Fathers the key to child behavior
"John Riggs" wrote in message ws.com... Thoughts? I'll tell you the same thing I told the last guy I worked with that complained about having to pay support ( and I don't mean the abusive support or collection systems ). "Pay your support and be proud that you can. Yeah right...............be proud you are being financially raped? It's hard enough for your kid, Then it is the CP's fault and you'd be ****ed if your ex withheld her support. Nope You kid will still love you, regardless where they are, because you are their dad. Had your head buried in the sand that long? Try not to miss any birthdays or special events and last but not least "Smile"....those are the things the kids remember". You are assuming that the CP even allows you that Yes, it's damned painful. Yes, it's a pain in the ass, but it isn't your kids fault. Many times it is not even yourkid What we really need to do is make the system work the same way for both genders ( it's getting there, just not fast enough ), and bust the system of abuse that is being leveled on ONE gender alone. ( I'm gonna get flamed for that ). The system is broke...and it needs a serious fixing. The 'system is unconstitutional and immoral. "justanotherdad" wrote in message m... The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to "parent" their own kids hit home with me. My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son. This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good. My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust. It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me financially. I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father: 1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway." Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support. 2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place. And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child support!!! Thoughts? |
#62
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Fathers the key to child behavior
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and
time from work but I finally have my son back. What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes a moment when that bias can be broken. You just have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your son, and you have to be patient. You will have to back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, print and collect emails, and collect other evidence of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on time, and never ever let my fustrations get the better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in following up you can bring a moment of clarity to a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining about her misdeeds. You will have to take the offense to make the nonsense stop. Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says your being intrusive or harassing. You know the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need. Everyone else's opinion is immaterial. Just my two cents. "justanotherdad" wrote in message m... The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to "parent" their own kids hit home with me. My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son. This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good. My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust. It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me financially. I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father: 1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway." Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support. 2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place. And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child support!!! Thoughts? "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message hlink.net... "AZ Astrea" wrote in message ... "Joy" wrote in message ... Geez, just noticed the cross post on my earlier response. Before anybody gets all up in arms at the idea that I'd ask about kids whose fathers are less than sterling, I'd like to point out that this was intended as a legitimate question (which would have been understood in the one group on this distribution list that I normally post to). There seem to be a lot of studies on the negative effect on kids of having less contact with a parent after a divorce - but this always seems to refer to kids who actually had a significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. My "What about those kids whose fathers didn't pay attention to them *before* the divorce?" question was referring to those kids who, well, didn't have a significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. I don't think I've ever seen a study on the effect of divorce on those kids, and wondered if there are any such studies. -------------------- I don't know about any studies but in my case my dad was away from home a lot and when he was home he had no idea what to do with two kids. He never wanted kids but followed the script and had them anyway. He was never abusive to us he just didn't know how to act around us. After the divorce, once or twice a year my mom would drive to his place, (couple hours away), and drop us off. It put him on the spot but he tried his best. When I was a teenager I spent a few days with him and while he was still unsure about it we got along well mainly because I was able to have 'adult' discourse with him. He remarried to a very strong, family-oriented woman who was finally able to bring him out and he became a very loving grandad. As an adult I spent more time with him and we got to know each other and to like and love each other. He just had no use for kids. So I think a lot of the time dads don't pay as much attention to the kids is because they are working long hours or they have no idea what to do with them. I don't want to dilute anything you said about your personal situation and relationship with your dad. However, there is another factor that comes into play many times. Mothers can be very critical of dads trying to parent children. They resent intrusion by fathers into an area they consider a woman's protected domain. In fact, some mothers are threatened emotionally by fathers trying to parent. The end result is the mothers drive fathers away and are extremely critical of everything fathers attempt to do, until the fathers give up. |
#63
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Fathers the key to child behavior
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and
time from work but I finally have my son back. What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes a moment when that bias can be broken. You just have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your son, and you have to be patient. You will have to back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, print and collect emails, and collect other evidence of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on time, and never ever let my fustrations get the better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in following up you can bring a moment of clarity to a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining about her misdeeds. You will have to take the offense to make the nonsense stop. Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says your being intrusive or harassing. You know the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need. Everyone else's opinion is immaterial. Just my two cents. "justanotherdad" wrote in message m... The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to "parent" their own kids hit home with me. My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son. This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good. My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust. It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me financially. I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father: 1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway." Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support. 2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place. And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child support!!! Thoughts? "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message hlink.net... "AZ Astrea" wrote in message ... "Joy" wrote in message ... Geez, just noticed the cross post on my earlier response. Before anybody gets all up in arms at the idea that I'd ask about kids whose fathers are less than sterling, I'd like to point out that this was intended as a legitimate question (which would have been understood in the one group on this distribution list that I normally post to). There seem to be a lot of studies on the negative effect on kids of having less contact with a parent after a divorce - but this always seems to refer to kids who actually had a significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. My "What about those kids whose fathers didn't pay attention to them *before* the divorce?" question was referring to those kids who, well, didn't have a significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. I don't think I've ever seen a study on the effect of divorce on those kids, and wondered if there are any such studies. -------------------- I don't know about any studies but in my case my dad was away from home a lot and when he was home he had no idea what to do with two kids. He never wanted kids but followed the script and had them anyway. He was never abusive to us he just didn't know how to act around us. After the divorce, once or twice a year my mom would drive to his place, (couple hours away), and drop us off. It put him on the spot but he tried his best. When I was a teenager I spent a few days with him and while he was still unsure about it we got along well mainly because I was able to have 'adult' discourse with him. He remarried to a very strong, family-oriented woman who was finally able to bring him out and he became a very loving grandad. As an adult I spent more time with him and we got to know each other and to like and love each other. He just had no use for kids. So I think a lot of the time dads don't pay as much attention to the kids is because they are working long hours or they have no idea what to do with them. I don't want to dilute anything you said about your personal situation and relationship with your dad. However, there is another factor that comes into play many times. Mothers can be very critical of dads trying to parent children. They resent intrusion by fathers into an area they consider a woman's protected domain. In fact, some mothers are threatened emotionally by fathers trying to parent. The end result is the mothers drive fathers away and are extremely critical of everything fathers attempt to do, until the fathers give up. |
#64
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Fathers the key to child behavior
I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and
time from work but I finally have my son back. What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes a moment when that bias can be broken. You just have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your son, and you have to be patient. You will have to back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, print and collect emails, and collect other evidence of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on time, and never ever let my fustrations get the better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in following up you can bring a moment of clarity to a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining about her misdeeds. You will have to take the offense to make the nonsense stop. Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says your being intrusive or harassing. You know the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need. Everyone else's opinion is immaterial. Just my two cents. "justanotherdad" wrote in message m... The comments about mothers being critical of a Dad attempting to "parent" their own kids hit home with me. My motto is I want to be "a Parent, not a Playdate" with my only son. This stance has caused me much grief and I am now well aware of how prejuiced the divorce system and many woman (even MY Mom) are in my attempts to be the best parent I can be. I do believe the academic studies that say more contact with a Dad does kids good. My ex grills my son every time after I return him in an attempt to dig up dirt about my parenting and is very controlling during my very limited visitation time. She has critizied me and complained in court about almost everything I do with my son. It is very unjust. It has made me want to give up --- but I haven't and it's ruining me financially. I feel a divorce has two consequences for a father: 1) They give up and are seen as "See they did not care anyway." Hence, the divorce was justified. Dead-beats and/or no support. 2) They fight and are seen as intruding/harrassing. Eventually after much financial hardship, if successful, they are able to win significant time with their kids. Hence, the ex will then say the divorce made them better fathers -- to which I say, no way --- in most cases, the manipulating/controlling Mom prevent the father/Dad from being as involved as he wanted to be in the first place. And people wonder why dads tend not to be enthused about paying child support!!! Thoughts? "Bob Whiteside" wrote in message hlink.net... "AZ Astrea" wrote in message ... "Joy" wrote in message ... Geez, just noticed the cross post on my earlier response. Before anybody gets all up in arms at the idea that I'd ask about kids whose fathers are less than sterling, I'd like to point out that this was intended as a legitimate question (which would have been understood in the one group on this distribution list that I normally post to). There seem to be a lot of studies on the negative effect on kids of having less contact with a parent after a divorce - but this always seems to refer to kids who actually had a significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. My "What about those kids whose fathers didn't pay attention to them *before* the divorce?" question was referring to those kids who, well, didn't have a significant relationship with both parents before the divorce. I don't think I've ever seen a study on the effect of divorce on those kids, and wondered if there are any such studies. -------------------- I don't know about any studies but in my case my dad was away from home a lot and when he was home he had no idea what to do with two kids. He never wanted kids but followed the script and had them anyway. He was never abusive to us he just didn't know how to act around us. After the divorce, once or twice a year my mom would drive to his place, (couple hours away), and drop us off. It put him on the spot but he tried his best. When I was a teenager I spent a few days with him and while he was still unsure about it we got along well mainly because I was able to have 'adult' discourse with him. He remarried to a very strong, family-oriented woman who was finally able to bring him out and he became a very loving grandad. As an adult I spent more time with him and we got to know each other and to like and love each other. He just had no use for kids. So I think a lot of the time dads don't pay as much attention to the kids is because they are working long hours or they have no idea what to do with them. I don't want to dilute anything you said about your personal situation and relationship with your dad. However, there is another factor that comes into play many times. Mothers can be very critical of dads trying to parent children. They resent intrusion by fathers into an area they consider a woman's protected domain. In fact, some mothers are threatened emotionally by fathers trying to parent. The end result is the mothers drive fathers away and are extremely critical of everything fathers attempt to do, until the fathers give up. |
#65
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Fathers the key to child behavior
"NJ_Dad" wrote in message et... I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and time from work but I finally have my son back. What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes a moment when that bias can be broken. You just have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your son, and you have to be patient. You will have to back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, and collect emails, and collect other evidence of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on time, and never ever let my fustrations get the better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in following up you can bring a moment of clarity to a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining about her misdeeds. You will have to take the offense to make the nonsense stop. Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says your being intrusive or harassing. You know the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need. Everyone else's opinion is immaterial. Just my two cents. Wholeheartedly agree with this. It takes a long time, a lot of money, a great deal of patience and a lot of persistence. And they wonder why divorced men are more likely to die or committ suicide? NJ_Dad's comments are right on the money. Saving the rest for after it's over is the best thing to do. The legal system is slow, and I do believe that part of it is to try and encourage you to just give up so that they do not have to deal with it. Rambler |
#66
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Fathers the key to child behavior
"NJ_Dad" wrote in message et... I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and time from work but I finally have my son back. What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes a moment when that bias can be broken. You just have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your son, and you have to be patient. You will have to back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, and collect emails, and collect other evidence of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on time, and never ever let my fustrations get the better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in following up you can bring a moment of clarity to a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining about her misdeeds. You will have to take the offense to make the nonsense stop. Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says your being intrusive or harassing. You know the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need. Everyone else's opinion is immaterial. Just my two cents. Wholeheartedly agree with this. It takes a long time, a lot of money, a great deal of patience and a lot of persistence. And they wonder why divorced men are more likely to die or committ suicide? NJ_Dad's comments are right on the money. Saving the rest for after it's over is the best thing to do. The legal system is slow, and I do believe that part of it is to try and encourage you to just give up so that they do not have to deal with it. Rambler |
#67
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Fathers the key to child behavior
"NJ_Dad" wrote in message et... I can sympathize with you. It took me four years and lots of legal fees and time from work but I finally have my son back. What I learned about the experience is that persistence pays but it's costly. And not just in money, although you'll spend a lot of it. The courts are definately biased against dads but there comes a moment when that bias can be broken. You just have to document all the nitty gritty details of being denied access to your son, and you have to be patient. You will have to back your ex into a legal corner. I had to tape phone conversations, and collect emails, and collect other evidence of the ex's misbehavior's while at the same time make all the payments on time, and never ever let my fustrations get the better of me. As long as you make a good faith effort and persist in following up you can bring a moment of clarity to a judge. But you'll have to resort to being critical of her and complaining about her misdeeds. You will have to take the offense to make the nonsense stop. Don't let what other's say make you lose focus. So what if some one says your being intrusive or harassing. You know the truth behind your motives and that's all the audience you need. Everyone else's opinion is immaterial. Just my two cents. Wholeheartedly agree with this. It takes a long time, a lot of money, a great deal of patience and a lot of persistence. And they wonder why divorced men are more likely to die or committ suicide? NJ_Dad's comments are right on the money. Saving the rest for after it's over is the best thing to do. The legal system is slow, and I do believe that part of it is to try and encourage you to just give up so that they do not have to deal with it. Rambler |
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