Feeling a big anxious about induction vs. c-section

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
IMO, you're overstepping the boundaries here Todd. If you have anything to
offer that's relevant to Joy, by all means, include it in the thread.
Considering what Joy has been through already in her pregnancy, I don't
think she needs it to be the subject of debate on misc.health.alternative
and sci.med. I don't think anyone likes to see the personal lives of
MKPers become pawns in a cause in such a blatantly obvious manner, no
matter how important the cause is. Until recently you responded on a more
human levels to individual posters and showed more respect for that thin
line in the sand that is netiquette, and I appreciated that.
I also don't understand your constant attacks on Ericka and Larry (and
Barbara too?). Perhaps their methods are different from yours, but I think
they want the same things for MKPers and labouring women that you do.
Larry is crunchier than the balls on a brass monkey!
After a point - and anyone who knows me will know how alien it is to me to
say this - it all becomes semantics. Can't people agree to disagree on
some points, and admit they have a common goal or two? Who is the enemy?


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/


You are now, Amy!

Disagree with Todd and find your name in a subject line and in his posts!
--

Jamie
Earth Angels:
Taylor Marlys, 1/3/03 -- My Big Girl, who started preschool, and loved it!
Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- My Little Walker, who wants nothing more than to
go explore the world!

Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password:
Guest
Become a member for free - go to Add Member to set up your own User ID and
Password

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
...
"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
IMO, you're overstepping the boundaries here Todd. If you have anything
to offer that's relevant to Joy, by all means, include it in the thread.
Considering what Joy has been through already in her pregnancy, I don't
think she needs it to be the subject of debate on misc.health.alternative
and sci.med. I don't think anyone likes to see the personal lives of
MKPers become pawns in a cause in such a blatantly obvious manner, no
matter how important the cause is. Until recently you responded on a more
human levels to individual posters and showed more respect for that thin
line in the sand that is netiquette, and I appreciated that.
I also don't understand your constant attacks on Ericka and Larry (and
Barbara too?). Perhaps their methods are different from yours, but I
think they want the same things for MKPers and labouring women that you
do. Larry is crunchier than the balls on a brass monkey!
After a point - and anyone who knows me will know how alien it is to me
to say this - it all becomes semantics. Can't people agree to disagree on
some points, and admit they have a common goal or two? Who is the enemy?


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/


You are now, Amy!

Disagree with Todd and find your name in a subject line and in his posts!

Whoo hoo, that must be my 15 minute claim to fame. What's disturbing is that
he reminds me of my father - mildly eccentric, mostly fanatical, usually
right, and incessantly repetitive ad nauseum.
"Amy,....ssst....I am your father...ssst"


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
...
LARRY "CRUNCHIER" THAN BRASS MONKEY BALLS? (see below)

WHO IS THE ENEMY?

SEMANTICS AREN'T IMPORTANT?


Amy (Mum of Two),

Semantics are ALL important when massive crimes are being committed
against
babies obstetricians.

Larry McMahan employs semantics which help perpetuate the crimes - saying
the crimes are mere standard "substandard" care.



LARRY - DO YOU **SUSPECT** CHILD ABUSE IS OCCURRING AS OBSTETRICIANS
EXPERIMENT WITH ASPHYXIATING NEWBORN BABIES?

EMERGENCY! (And it's one of MANY obstetric emergencies/crimes.)

See below.




Amy "attacked" - nicely - civilly...

IMO, you're overstepping the boundaries here Todd.


We disagree; but I'm glad you spoke up and offered criticism.

If you have anything to
offer that's relevant to Joy, by all means, include it in the thread.

What I post about is relevant to the CONDITION - spina bifida in babies
and
the way vaginal birth of these and other babies is treated by
obstetricians
- including bizarre birth-canal-closing behavior and cover-up lies.

I think your original post was helpful and polite. As usual, the thread got
way off track and descended into personal attacks. Mind you, I'm not the
usenet posting police, so I'm going to shut up now.

Nowadays I always include mention of routine asphyxiation/denial of
umbilical oxygen and routine robbery of massive amounts of baby blood.

Both the mass birth-canal-closing and mass asphyxiation/baby blood robbery
are crying emergencies.

Considering what Joy has been through already in her pregnancy, I don't
think she needs it to be the subject of debate on misc.health.alternative
and sci.med.

My primary concern is what BABIES are going through - NOW - by the
thousands
per day.

I am sorry if my posts have offended Joybelle. That is not my intent.

I don't think anyone likes to see the personal lives of MKPers
become pawns in a cause in such a blatantly obvious manner, no matter how
important the cause is.

MKP/misc.kids.pregnancy is a usenet newsgroup NOT a private list.

People have the option of posting anonymously if they wish.

Of course. But IMO manners have a place here, as they do in most public
forums. Perhaps you could consider a career in politics?

Again, I am sorry if my posts have offended Joybelle. That is not my
intent.

I wouldn't know, you'd have to ask Joy.

Until recently you responded on a more human levels
to individual posters and showed more respect for that thin line in the
sand
that is netiquette, and I appreciated that.

Included in "netiquette" is intellectually HONEST argumentation.

When THAT "thin line in the sand" of netiquette is crossed - I responed
accordingly and point out the intellectually dishonest argumentation as I
did in response to Barbara/Circe's reply to me.

So far Barbara/Circe has not yet acknowledged having falsely inferred that
I
said something which I did not say.

She probably didn't want to appear in the "Gastaldo Times".

Larry snipped my correction along with my mention of his bizarre
"obstetric
crime is substandard care" came - and jumped in with his concern for
netiquette.

(Incidentally, Joybelle agreed with Barbara/Circe's intellectual
dishonesty.
But it's not Joybelle's job to defend me - so I (again) defended me - in
response to Joybelle's post.)

I also don't understand your constant attacks on Ericka and Larry (and
Barbara too?).

I say again: Larry is blithely calling massive obstetric crimes against
babies mere standard "substandard" care.

So far as I can see, the only leg Larry has to stand on is the sordid fact
that law enforcement is failing to enforce.

As Steve B. Harris, MD arrogantly notes:

"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....866f3384801ae9

That is the problem! No enforcement!

With people failing to speak out...

With ostensibly "crunchy" people like Larry (your term; see below)
publicly
pretending that the massive obstetric crimes are mere standard
"substandard"
care...

That just puts off the day that law enforcement stops looking the other
way.

Similarly, when prominent childbirth education authors like Henci "the
other
side" Goer FAIL TO MENTION massive obstetric crime - people are further
distanced from speaking out.

Ericka publicly lied - said that Henci Goer discusses in her books the
fact
that obstetricians are closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth
canals closed when babies get stuck - and lying to cover-up.

ERICKA attacked.

My attacks in response are self-defense - protests of Ericka's bizarre
lie.

WHY is she lying about that?

Intellectual dishonesty is THE "line in the sand of good netiquette."

Ericka blatantly crossed it and now sits on her lie silently.

Since silence of childbirth educators like Henci Goer perpetuates the
crimes
- I speak up about that and Ericka's bizarre attempt to cover-up Henci's
silence.

Regarding Barbara (Circe), I always kind of liked the fact that she said
she
doesn't killfile anyone, as in,

"I don't killfile anyone, even Gastaldo. I just don't bother to read his
posts (they give me a headache!)."
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/2a2c5843d4c7d280

Barbara read my post and falsely inferred that I said something I did not.

Again, in correcting, I mentioned the bizarre public behaviors of Ericka
and
Larry.

THAT'S when Larry started tooting the horn on the "good netiquette"
bandwagon - as he engages is BAD netiquette - babies be damned.

Perhaps their methods are different from yours


Ericka's method is lying - quite different from mine.

I can prove that Ericka is lying.

And what would that acheive? Truly?

I cannot prove that Larry is lying. Maybe he really DOES believe that the
obvious obstetric crimes are just standard "substandard" care?

Does he think Dr. Morley's baby asphyxiation experiment is a crime?

See below.

but I think
they want the same things for MKPers and labouring women that you do.
Larry
is crunchier than the balls on a brass monkey!

I don't think I've ever seen a brass monkey let alone the balls thereon.

A 'brass monkey' was used to hold cannonballs. When it was extremely cold,
the monkey would contract, releasing the cannonballs - hence freezing the
balls off a brass monkey. I'm surprised you didn't google it ;-)

"Crunchier" refers to counterculture?

If so, I disagree. Larry gives cultural authorities/MDs a pass where it
counts.

With everyone giving MDs a pass, the massive MD crimes continue.

I'll ask Larry again:

LARRY - IS THIS CHILD ABUSE?

Is the temporary baby asphyxiation experiment child abuse?

I wrote to Barbara:

No need to "beg" to differ with me - people differ with me all the time -
like for example the time that Ericka Kammerer pretended publicly -
ERRONEOUSLY - that childbirth educator Henci Goer warns that
obstetricians
are closing birth canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck.

I welcome ALL differing; though obviously, I still think Ericka's (and
Henci's!) behavior bizarre - like Larry McMahan's notion that the massive
obstetric crimes are just standard "substandard" care and not crimes.

Speaking of obstetric crime...

Barbara, you snipped Dr. Morley's temporary baby asphyxiation experiment.

Here it is again:

"[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and
thumb...The
[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the
color
will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue
(vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be
able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration
on
a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds. Common sense will
soon
release the finger and thumb."
http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm

Barbara, do you think it is a crime for obstetricians to temporarily
asphyxiate babies to demonstrate to themselves that they should not
PERMANENTLY asphyxiate umbilical cord oxygen and rob babies of up to 50%
of
their blood volume?

Or do we differ on that point too?


Larry McMahan replied:

In misc.kids.pregnancy wrote:
: In misc.kids.pregnancy Todd Gastaldo wrote:

: : My post was for "new readers and chiros" - not Joybelle necessarily.

: That's the problem. Responses in a thread started by a regular poster
: should remain directed to that poster, and remain OT and limited to
: mostly to that poster's needs.

Larry,

There is no problem except your attempted use of "netiquette" concerns to
cover-up your embarrassment at euphemizing mass child abuse by MDs as
standard "substandard" care.

Law enforcement is looking the other way - babies be damned - and you are
pretending that means that no crime is occurring.

When mass child abuse is suspected - EVERYONE hears about it - everyone
has
a chance to PREVENT it - that's what I would want if I was a child being
abused.

By creating a new subject line, everyone reading the thread instantly knew
there was a change.

Larry, you are publicly pretending otherwise - just like you are publicly
pretending that obstetricians are only practicing standard "substandard"
care and not committing obvious crimes.


: posts for "new readers and" any others should start a new thread.

: You may post as you wish, just start a new thread when your post is
: OT to or not directed to the OP.

: Thanks,
: Larry

Oooh, and finally (didn't see this one until I hit send and saw the
list of ng's I was posting to. Grrrr)

Last piece of netiquitte is don't add newsgroups when when responding
to a post. Leave it in the orignal poster's newsgroup(s) only. You
can add the other newsgroups when you start your own thread.

TIA for being courteous.

Larry

Babies are being abused en masse - sometimes killed.

You are preaching "netiquette" as MDs perform mass child abuse.

It's about as useful to babies as you claiming that the mass child abuse
is
standard "substandard" care.

I will add back the newsgroups you deleted.

END Todd's response to Larry

JUST SEMANTICS?

AMY CONCLUDED...

After a point - and anyone who knows me will know how alien it is to me
to
say this - it all becomes semantics. Can't people agree to disagree on
some
points, and admit they have a common goal or two? Who is the enemy?


se·man·tics ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-mntks)
n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)

1. Linguistics. The study or science of meaning in language.
2. Linguistics. The study of relationships between signs and symbols
and
what they represent. Also called semasiology.
3. The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other
language form: We're basically agreed; let's not quibble over semantics.

Amy,

When babies are being asphyxiated en masse and robbed of massive amounts
of
blood....

As I indicated above...

Semantics are all important.

When "substandard" care is occurring - there isn't nearly as much
urgency...

When CRIME is occurring - crime is stopped immediately - ESPECIALLY when
babies are being harmed.

When crime/abuse of babies is so much as SUSPECTED - health professionals
are MANDATED to report - but ANYONE may report.

Indeed, the State of Oregon ENCOURAGES people who are not required to
report
to report suspected child abuse, as in,

"ALL OREGON CITIZENS ARE ENCOURAGED TO REPORT SUSPECTED [CHILD ABUSE] TO
DHS
OR LAW ENFORCEMENT. Over 25 percent of the substantiated cases of child
abuse are reported by concerned citizens who are not required to report.
Failure to report is a violation and carries a maximum penalty of
$1,000.00.
Mandatory reporters have also been successfully sued for damages in civil
court for failing to report.©-
http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/children/a...s/report.shtml

WHO IS THE ENEMY?

Obstetric criminals/MDs are the "enemy" because they are routinely
asphyxiating babies and robbing massive amounts of blood from them, etc.

As always, I am in favor of pardons in advance. As medical students, MDs
are TRAINED to perform obvious felonies.

The crimes are so massive, it would not surprise me to learn that usenet
newsgroups are salted with knowledgeable people who will lie to buttress
the
authority of - for example - child birth educators claiming to be "the
other
side."

Remember when a certain woman appeared suddenly, swearing that I was wrong
about the mass baby asphyxiation/mass baby blood robbery - right after my
post in reply to immediate cord clamping/baby asphyxiation proponent/baby
blood robber Peter Hollands, PhD?

She violated "netiquette" all over the place - and people CHEERED her -
and
it turned out she was "just joking."

That was weird.

Prominent childbirth educator Henci "the other side" Goer's failure to
mention the spectacle of obstetricians keeping birth canals closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck is only exceeded in strangeness by
Ericka's bald-faced lie that Henci is not silent about this massive
obstetric crime.

WHY are people giving MDs a pass? Obvious CRIMES are being committed
against babies en masse - obvious cover-up lies are being told.

Why has Larry not yet acknowledged that MDs are mostly anti-immunization
given their bald lie of omission - their failure to state that
breastfeedings include IMMUNIZATIONS manufactured by mothers?

Back in 2001, when Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:

"I didn't say there aren't benefits to breastfeeding - but the antibodies
in the milk are not an 'immunization.'"

Larry replied:

"Aha! Now I understand. :-) Uh, that's not my arugment, but the
good doctor Todd's, one which I have not completely bought into."
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/
msg/9cbd531c0a4a4cc0?hl=en&

Larry, have you bought into it yet - after patronizing me as being "the
good
doctor Todd"?

For my 2001 response to Larry (and others)...

See Breastmilk eyedrops/Gastaldo corrects McMahan, Laing, Goble,
Sessions, Fiona, Kate and Dave...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1242

Once Larry has "completely bought into" the notion that breastfeedings are
immunizations - maybe he will not be so eager to give MDs a pass as they
parade themselves as being pro-immunization.

MDs are mostly ANTI-immunization - and on top that they are fraudulently
promoting their needle vaccinations....

See MD crimes vs. that kidder Larry... Was - Forced Vaccination
http://groups.google.com/group/
misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/bcd4dfbe39bf9cca

From mass physical child abuse to mass IMMUNOLOGIC child abuse - Larry
gives
lying MDs a pass.

They are merely offering standard "substandard" care, he says.


I say again Amy:

Semantics are ALL important when massive crimes are being committed
against
babies obstetricians.

Larry McMahan employs semantics which help perpetuate the crimes - saying
the crimes are mere standard "substandard" care.

I agree with most everything in your posts. I agree with what you're trying
to achieve. I don't _always_ agree with the way you do it. Do you want to be
a one man army? Do you suppose public opinion of you as an anti-social kook
helps your cause? FWIW, I think you're a pleasant person and your material
is well-researched - *but* you have a knack of alienating people. It's your
battle, but IMO attacking Ericka and Larry who hold similar opinions to your
own in a culture where formula feeding, circumcision and surgical birth are
the norm is counterproductive. Disagree, by all means, but do you have to
try to publicly discredit them?
I'm afraid to respond to a thread of yours for ending up quoted out of
context in the headlines. I don't feel like debating this any further, as
I'm getting one of Barbara's headaches. If you were my father, I would have
thrown a lemon at your head by now. I love him dearly, but I had to take
migraine medication for years to be able to live with him. I don't want to
have to resort to that again.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...
"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
...
So far Barbara/Circe has not yet acknowledged having falsely inferred
that I said something which I did not say.

She probably didn't want to appear in the "Gastaldo Times".

Nah, I've just been really busy.

Todd, the reason I wrote the words "true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus"
was to distinguish from CPD bought on by iatrogenic causes, including poor
maternal positioning during the second stage. Maybe I should I have been
clearer about that, but that's what I meant and I know that most posters
understood it that way. It's only you, Todd, who assumes that no one but you
knows that pushing in a semi-sitting or dorsal position is bad idea!

'Nuff said.
--
Be well, Barbara

QUESTION FOR JAMIE RE SEXUAL ASSAULT - AND LARRY'S STANDARD "SUBSTANDARD"
CARE GAG...

(Jamie may still be hiding behind her filter - so I would appreciate it if
someone she is not filtering would respond to this post and quote it back.)

Prefatory note:

From the National Center for Victims of Crime:

"In most jurisdictions, the term sexual assault has replaced the term rape
in the state statutes... The law generally assumes that a person does not
consent to sexual conduct if...she...believe[s she is]...undergoing a
medical procedure...Some examples of sexual assault include...A doctor,
nurse, or other health care professional giving you an unnecessary internal
examination or touching your sexual organs in an unprofessional, unwarranted
and inappropriate manner..."
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?d...cumentID=32369
http://www.uwp.edu/departments/stude...sexassault.cfm

QUESTION FOR JAMIE

Jamie, if you are reading...

Do you agree it is sexual assault (unprofessional, unwarranted and
inappropriate) for MDs to close birth canals up to 30% and then use scissors
to SLICE vaginas - sometimes clear to the anus - thereby
surgically/fraudulently claiming to be doing everything possible to open
birth canals?

When I asked Larry McMahan the same question, he replied:

"No. *It is substandard care, but it is NOT sexual assault."
http://groups-beta.google.com/?group...msg/?b3638c6df...

Routine episiotomy is rather OBVIOUS sexual assault.

Shiono et al. at NIH demonstrated in 1991 that episiotomized women suffer 50
times MORE severe tears clear to the anus than women who are not
episiotomized.

Yet "the OB guys" are STILL (in 2005) promoting the fraud that their
episiotomies are preventing severe tears clear to the anus - i.e. - they are
STILL fraudulently indicating that routine vagina slicing is a legitimate
medical procedure...

Obstetricians know they are committing sexual assault routinely...

Four UCLA physicians (DeCherney, Nathan, Lu and Lu) write:

"Sexual assault includes genital...penetration by part of the accused's body
or by an object...It may result from...the victim's inability to give
appropriate consent."^^^

Obstetricians are not only penetrating vaginas, they are SLICING vaginas.

Victims (pregnant women) obviously can't give appropriate consent if
obstetricians are lying to them.

^^^In DeCherney AH, Nathan L (eds). Current
Obstetric & Gynecologic Diagnosis & Treatment. NY: Lange Medical
Books/McGraw-Hill. Ninth Edition. 2003:1089

Of course, this isn't the only mass assault and battery committed by
obstetricians....

See ACOG's 2005 edition: How NOT to birth
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/3606



Amy (Mum of Two) recently asked:

"Who is the enemy?"

Jamie Clark replied:

You are now, Amy!

Disagree with Todd and find your name in a subject line and in his posts!


If Amy (Mum of Two) is my enemy now, she is one of the nicest enemies one
could have. (Actually, I regard enemies as friends. Enemies can be counted
on to tell/say things that friends would shy away from. In that sense, they
are best friends.)

Coincidentally, I mentioned Jamie in the same post where I criticized Larry
for indicating that American medicine's mass vagina slicing is standard
"substandard" care and not crime/sexual assault.

See below.



Here's the post with Larry and Jamie in it...


Todd Gastaldo * Mar 11, 9:53*am * *
Newsgroups: misc.kids.pregnancy
From: "Todd Gastaldo" -
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:53:33 GMT
Local: Fri, Mar 11 2005 9:53*am
Subject: Birth under a tree vs. Birthrape


BIRTH UNDER A TREE VS. BIRTHRAPE

(For Birth under a tree, see the very end of this post.)

snip

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
...

Dagny,
I think you are overly harsh on this. *I don't know exactly what you
experienced, only that you label it a birthrape, but that was one
instance,
not all medical providers, be them OB's, midwives, etc, are going to
perpetrate birthrape.

I don't think Dagny is being overly harsh at all.

Here is Dagny briefly describing her birthrape...

"Remember, I'm the one who she told sarcastically, as she started the
violence over my
protest, 'Been reading Todd Gastaldo eh?' *(I call it a birthrape because
she went in me over and over after I told her to GET HER FINGERS OUT OF MY
VAGINA.)"
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...tive/msg/80c48...

MOST women are subjected to a rape of their birth - closure of their birth
canals the "extra" up to 30% - with prominent OBs, CNMwives and direct entry
midwives PROMOTING closure of birth canals the "extra" up to 30%.

Prominent professionals also promote KEEPING the birth canal closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck!

I will agree with Jamie that most OB's midwives, etc. are not going to
override OVERT PROTESTS like Dagny reports she made...

But most women don't know to protest!

Birth is being raped - routinely!

American medicine's most frequent surgical behavior toward females -
euphemism "routine episiotomy" - involves mass slicing of vaginas - OBs
surgically inferring that everything possible is being to open the birth
canal - as they close the birth canal up to 30%.

In most jurisdictions, this is mass SEXUAL ASSAULT ("the term sexual assault
has replaced the term rape")...
The National Center for Victims of Crime says:

"In most jurisdictions, the term sexual assault has replaced the term rape
in the state statutes...Some examples of sexual assault include...A doctor,
nurse, or other health care professional giving you an unnecessary internal
examination or touching your sexual organs in an unprofessional, unwarranted
and inappropriate manner..."
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.??aspx...Doc??umentID=3...

Jamie, if you are reading,

Do you agree it is sexual assault (unprofessional, unwarranted and
inappropriate) for MDs to close birth canals up to 30% and then use scissors
to SLICE vaginas - sometimes clear to the anus - thereby
surgically/fraudulently claiming to be doing everything possible to open
birth canals?

When I asked Larry McMahan the same question, he replied:

"No. *It is substandard care, but it is NOT sexual assault."
http://groups-beta.google.com/?group...msg/?b3638c6df...

OBs are LYING to cover-up - and that DEFINITELY makes it sexual assault - or
so I say.

In Larry's defense, law enforcement is not prosecuting - but then again -
law enforcement often didn't prosecute assault and battery against women
("wife-beating") even though it was an obvious crime.

[Steve B. Harris, MD arrogantly told me: "Without enforcement, there is no
law. Without law, there is no crime. These are elementary principles. Get
an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....66f3384801ae9]



Sometimes slicing the vagina is necessary - but OBs closing birth canals up
to 30% and slicing vaginas pretending to be doing everything possible to
open birth canals as they LIE - that is sexual assault - or so I say (I say
again)...

As usual, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs.

As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to perform this and other obvious
felonies.

See Homebirth (also: AMA: Is it illegal for OBs to lie?
http://groups-beta.google.com/?group...msg/?0af4b794f...

Jamie wrote to Dagny...

I'm not disregarding what you experienced AT ALL, or
challenging the validity of it.

Here, again is that excerpt of what Dagny said she experienced:

"Remember, I'm the one who she told sarcastically, as she started the
violence over my
protest, 'Been reading Todd Gastaldo eh?' *(I call it a birthrape because
she went in me over and over after I told her to GET HER FINGERS OUT OF MY
VAGINA.)"
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...tive/msg/80c48...

Jamie continued...

I am so incredibly sorry that you
experienced what you did.

Yes, I too am sorry that Dagny was subjected to birthrape. *But look at what
that experience empowered her to do the next time! *She had an unassisted
birth with "only" her mom there. *Awesome birth story!

But it's like saying that no man could ever be a
good husband or father, because someone was raped or molested as a child.
It's just not true.

No Jamie, it's not like this at all. *MOST women are having their birth
canals closed up to 30% - and prominent OBs and CNMwives and direct entry
midwives are PROMOTING this bizarre behavior.

In addition, routine vagina slicing is occurring - OBs are
surgically/fraudulently inferring they are doing everything possible to open
birth canals even as they close birth canals up to 30%.

Birth is being raped. *Sexual assault is ROUTINE.

Also...

An estimated 4.6% of "healthy" term babies are suffering brain bleeds - not
to mention the fact that some babies are suffering unexplained deaths and
unexplained paralysis - not to mention lesser motor and perceptual
difficulties later in life.

NOTE: *There is also the matter of OBs temporarily asphyxiating/robbing
massive amounts of blood from EVERY CESAREAN BABY, according to retired
obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG.

Just because babies live is NOT a reason to let OBs close birth canals up to
30% and rob babies of up to 50% of their blood volume.

Birth is being raped - en masse - by OBs and CNMwives - and direct entry
midwives too (my thanks to Dagny for her input in regard to her direct entry
midwife; see above).

There are tons of good men out there, and tons of good
medical professionals.

Good medical professionals are ignoring my pleas that they stop ignoring the
medical literature and stop closing birth canals up to 30% - and stop
KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck.

Here is one of my latest pleas...

See Dr. Gastaldo corrects BRITISH GRAY'S ANATOMY...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/.../msg/44c2b0485...

Jamie continued...

There are also some bad ones, I'll give you that,
but I don't think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush,
especially in answer to a random person asking for birthing assistance for
his wife.

The Four OB Lies are obvious - yet "good medical professionals" - the vast
majority who read them - IGNORE them - make no protest!

My experience in the ngs tells me that if his wife is the average
woman, she'll likely have a relatively medically assisted pregnancy and
birth, likely with an epidural, and be pleased with the fact that it all
turned out okay and she got a baby in the end.

Jamie describes the majority of births - birth canal closed up to 30%.

Many women will have cesareans - EVERY CESAREAN BABY is temporarily
asphyxiated and robbed of up to 50% of its blood volume.

Birth is being raped.

I don't believe that the
average woman is a candidate for an unassisted home birth.

BIRTH UNDER A TREE

Interestingly, at least one medical doctor suggests that if women were
informed of the full details and mortality and morbidity related to cesarean
section, "most of them would get up and go out and have their baby under a
tree," as in,
"Dr. Dermot W. McDonald of the National Maternity Hospital in Dublin Ireland
suggested that the medicolegal pressure to perform a cesarean may abate only
when mothers begin suing physicians for assault, alleging that they were not
given fully informed consent...

"'If one went to the extreme of giving the patient the full details of
mortality and morbidity related to cesarean section, most of them would get
up and go out and have their baby under a tree,' [Dr. McDonald] said."
[Neel J. Medicolegal pressure, MDs' lack of patience cited in cesarean
'epidemic.' Ob.Gyn. News Vol 22 No 10]

Irish physician McDonald's remarks accord with the 1990 findings of British
research statistician Marjorie Tew who concluded that the British maternity
system is run by obstetricians who "withhold and pervert knowledge in order
to maintain public ignorance and delusion." [Tew M. Safer childbirth? A
critical history of maternity care. London: Chapman and Hall, 1990.]

Todd

END Todd's post first asking Jamie the question above...

Thanks for reading everyone.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA

BARBARA (CIRCE) FALSELY INFERS/FAILS TO ANSWER SIMPLE QUESTION...

The simple question is at the very end of this post.

Barbara (Circe) wrote:

Todd, the reason I wrote the words "true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus"
was to distinguish from CPD bought on by iatrogenic causes, including poor
maternal positioning during the second stage. Maybe I should I have been
clearer about that, but that's what I meant and I know that most posters
understood it that way. It's only you, Todd, who assumes that no one but you
knows that pushing in a semi-sitting or dorsal position is bad idea!

'Nuff said.

Yet again Barbara (Circe) falsely infers something I do not believe/did
not/have not ever said.

Regarding Barbara (Circe's) allegation that I assume that no one but me
knows that pushing in a semi-sitting or dorsal position is bad idea...

This is totally false.

I know for a fact that a woman calling herself Henci Goer answering a
telephone number for Henci Goer years ago learned from me that semisitting
and dorsal delivery close the birth canal up to 30%.

I know for a fact that Henci Goer's books do not state that semisitting and
dorsal delivery close the birth canal up to 30% or that obstetricians are
KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck.

I know for a fact that Ericka Kammerer is lying when she publicly swears
that Henci Goer DOES say these things.

The question is - WHY is Ericka Kammerer lying about this?

The more important question - why is HENCI GOER silent about the obvious
obstetric crime?

Amy (Mum of Two) asked me (in replying to the same post): "What purpose does
it serve to demonstrate that Ericka is lying?" - or words to that effect.

I was responding to Amy's statement that Ericka and Larry use a different
method.

I was underscoring/AGREEING with Amy's statement - noting that Ericka's
method includes lying - a very different method from my method.

When one alleges that someone is lying, it is important that one can
demonstrate the lie.

In addition, in demonstrating Ericka's lie, one can immediately see that
childbirth educator Henci Goer is silent about the obvious obstetric crime.

Silence about crime perpetuates crime.

EXPOSING silence about crime - demonstrating bizarre, related lies - helps
expose and end crime - which is my purpose here.

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA


PS Barbara failed to answer a simple question...

See below.

I wrote:

Barbara's (Circe's) phrase "true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus" is
meaningless when the obstetrician has the mother semisitting or dorsal -
closing the birth canal the "extra" up 30%.

Barbara (Circe) replied:


Todd, I beg to differ. Hydrocephalus *can* result in a head circumference
that will not fit through any pelvis regardless of the mother's position
during pushing. Since Joy has had all of her babies unmedicated and has had
three home births, I know she knows that she can push in any position she
likes. That does not eliminate the possibility that her baby's hydrocephalus
could progress to a point where the head would be too large to deliver
vaginally. Fortunately, it sounds like that is not the case!
--
Be well, Barbara



To which I replied...


Barbara

I am well, thank you.

My post was for "new readers and chiros" - not Joybelle necessarily.

But since you mentioned Joybelle's homebirth - and inferred a guarantee - I
should mention (for the benefit of new readers) that having a homebirth is NOT
a guarantee that one will be allowed and encouraged to push with the birth
canal opened the "extra" up to 30%.

Some homebirth midwives ape MDs in closing birth canal the "extra" up to 30% -
Dagny reported that she ran into one - and homebirth midwife Jan Tritten,
editor of Midwifery Today, actually PROMOTED closing the birth canal the
"extra' up to 30% as a "midwifery trick of the trade" (!) (after cancelling my
full length article on the subject!).

CNMwives also ape MDs - with Yale CNMwifery Prof. Helen Varney promoting
semisitting/birth-canal-closing after I asked her not to...

Regarding your statement, "Hydrocephalus *can* result in a head circumference
that will not fit through any pelvis regardless of the mother's position
during pushing."

I did not say hydrocephalus could NOT result in a head circumference that will
not fit through any pelvis regardless of the mother's position during pushing.

I said: "Barbara's (Circe's) phrase 'true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus' is
meaningless when the obstetrician has the mother semisitting or dorsal -
closing the birth canal the 'extra' up 30%."

I stand by that statement in the context of the discussion - three physicians
saying a vaginal birth would be OK in Joybelle's case.

Thank you though for making the point that if the hydrocephalus is even too
big for a birth canal opened the "extra" up to 30% - then true cephalopelvic
disproportion has occurred.

Unfortunately, obstetricians still close birth canals the "extra" up to 30%
even as they warn women about cephalopelvic disproportion - even when babies
are suspected of hydrocephalus and a vaginal birth is to be attempted.

One last note...

No need to "beg" to differ with me - people differ with me all the time - like
for example the time that Ericka Kammerer pretended publicly - ERRONEOUSLY -
that childbirth educator Henci Goer warns that obstetricians are closing birth
canals up to 30% and keeping birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when
babies get stuck.

I welcome ALL differing; though obviously, I still think Ericka's (and
Henci's!) behavior bizarre - like Larry McMahan's notion that the massive
obstetric crimes are just standard "substandard" care and not crimes.

Speaking of obstetric crime...

Barbara, you snipped Dr. Morley's temporary baby asphyxiation experiment.

Here it is again:

"[T]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed between finger and thumb...The
[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to about 60 bpm...the color
will change from purple-pink (normal at birth) to pallid blue
(vaso-constriction and asphyxia.)...Few midwives or obstetricians will be
able to observe, without interference, a deep, prolonged FHR deceleration on
a non-breathing newborn for a period of 60 seconds.* Common sense will soon
release the finger and thumb."
http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm

Barbara, do you think it is a crime for obstetricians to temporarily
asphyxiate babies to demonstrate to themselves that they should not
PERMANENTLY asphyxiate umbilical cord oxygen and rob babies of up to 50% of
their blood volume?

Or do we differ on that point too?

Just curious.

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA

Joybelle wrote:

That is a great story, Elle. Thank you!

The thing is I think she also got a lot of remarks questioning why she
didn't have a c-section, inferring her doctors somehow didn't handle it
right. I don't know why on earth lay people, with no experience
whatsoever with spina bifida or labour/delivery would say such things
(as if she, and you too, don't have enough to worry about)... The
parents are the ones who have consulted the experts and laid awake at
night mulling over all the scenarios. I don't know why folks don't
respect that.

Best of luck Joy.

"Circe" wrote in message
news:nxZXe.24213$sx2.19533@fed1read02...
"Todd Gastaldo" wrote in message
...
Barbara's (Circe's) phrase "true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus" is
meaningless when the obstetrician has the mother semisitting or dorsal -
closing the birth canal the "extra" up 30%.

Todd, I beg to differ. Hydrocephalus *can* result in a head circumference
that will not fit through any pelvis regardless of the mother's position
during pushing.

And having given birth to a big-headed baby in an optimal position and
dealing with the aftermath of that (which lasted about 4 1/2 months), I can
honestly say that yes, I think there are some circumstances in which just
because you can get the baby out vaginally, it may NOT be the best, even for
mom. There was NOTHING that could have been done to give me more room to
open, and I *did* open, but at the cost of severe spd, sciatica, sacrum and
tailbone pain lasting MONTHS. Every part of my pelvis that could separate,
did... and hurt like hell. Do I wish I'd done it another way? Not really--I
know how much more emotional difficulty I would have had with deciding to do
a c-section or an earlier induction via any method. But I do now truly
believe that there are some heads which just don't fit--dd's was almost one
of them. (And before anyone argues with me about it, I have a body memory of
how a "normal" baby head feels coming down through the pelvis. This head was
entirely different. For a picture of HOW different... this is *still* how
her head is proportioned, months later, and it was pretty much the same at
birth, though a bit smaller. It just didn't mold.

http://www.jenrose.com/shiny/PICT1836.jpg

Even if the pelvis can move, there's a limit to how far, I personally am
willing to damage it. With a normal baby whose head molds, it's rarely an
issue. But when you add in something like hydrocephalus (which Shiny doens't
have... her macrocephalus is only "borderline" and not caused by hydro... ),
yes, there is a limit to what a pelvis can do.

That said, the only reason I could open up that far was that I was in water
and able to move through about 6 positions in quick succession to find the
one that would let me open the farthest.

Jenrose

"Joybelle" wrote in message
...

"Jamie Clark" wrote in message
...


Yeah, that makes perfect sense, the fact that your nephews birth would be
bringing stuff up.

I really think so. I feel like I'm mourning the loss of my homebirth and
"normal" baby all over again. Seeing my nephew born was amazing, but
seeing his perfection makes me afraid of how different mine might be.
It's
that unknown again, and I HATE that!

It doesn't really stop with birth... hell, in our case it just *started*
with birth. She's 6 months old and in some ways amazing and I still wonder
day-to-day what today's "strangeness" will be. She still doesn't babble but
says, "MOM!" clearly and with intent. She *just* discovered toys and
developed an opinion that toys should be present during all waking times
when she is not actively being played with. She can balance sitting up for
about 45 seconds, but still has "head lag" when you sit her up by her arms.
We just don't know how fast or how far she will progress, and take it day by
day.

Jenrose

MACROCEPHALUS and HYDROCEPHALUS

See below.

I wrote:

Barbara's (Circe's) phrase "true CPD caused by the hydrocephalus" is
meaningless when the obstetrician has the mother semisitting or dorsal -
closing the birth canal the "extra" up 30%.

Barbara (Circe) replied:


Todd, I beg to differ. Hydrocephalus *can* result in a head circumference
that will not fit through any pelvis regardless of the mother's position
during pushing.

I replied to Barbara (Circe):


I did not say hydrocephalus could NOT result in a head circumference that will
not fit through any pelvis regardless of the mother's position during pushing.
snip

I stand by [my] statement in the context of the discussion - three physicians
saying a vaginal birth would be OK in Joybelle's case.

Thank you though for making the point that if the hydrocephalus is even too
big for a birth canal opened the "extra" up to 30% - then true cephalopelvic
disproportion has occurred.

Unfortunately, obstetricians still close birth canals the "extra" up to 30%
even as they warn women about cephalopelvic disproportion - even when babies
are suspected of hydrocephalus and a vaginal birth is to be attempted.



MACROCEPHALUS and HYDROCEPHALUS

Jenrose is glad she knew how to allow her pelvis to open maximally...

But she says there are times when vaginal birth is not best - even if the
mother can get the baby out...

And having given birth to a big-headed baby in an optimal position and
dealing with the aftermath of that (which lasted about 4 1/2 months), I can
honestly say that yes, I think there are some circumstances in which just
because you can get the baby out vaginally, it may NOT be the best, even for
mom. There was NOTHING that could have been done to give me more room to
open, and I *did* open, but at the cost of severe spd, sciatica, sacrum and
tailbone pain lasting MONTHS. Every part of my pelvis that could separate,
did... and hurt like hell. Do I wish I'd done it another way? Not really--I
know how much more emotional difficulty I would have had with deciding to do
a c-section or an earlier induction via any method. But I do now truly
believe that there are some heads which just don't fit--dd's was almost one
of them. (And before anyone argues with me about it, I have a body memory of
how a "normal" baby head feels coming down through the pelvis. This head was
entirely different. For a picture of HOW different... this is *still* how
her head is proportioned, months later, and it was pretty much the same at
birth, though a bit smaller. It just didn't mold.

http://www.jenrose.com/shiny/PICT1836.jpg

Even if the pelvis can move, there's a limit to how far, I personally am
willing to damage it. With a normal baby whose head molds, it's rarely an
issue. But when you add in something like hydrocephalus (which Shiny doens't
have... her macrocephalus is only "borderline" and not caused by hydro... ),
yes, there is a limit to what a pelvis can do.

That said, the only reason I could open up that far was that I was in water
and able to move through about 6 positions in quick succession to find the
one that would let me open the farthest.

Jenrose


As has often been noted - women are made to birth babies.

There may be reasons not to birth vaginally.

But there is NO reason for obstetricians to close birth canals up to 30%.

Women should not have to ASK for the "extra" up 30%.

Most women don't KNOW to ask.

It is a crime for obstetricians to knowingly close birth canals up to 30%.

It is also a crime for obstetricians to knowingly KEEP birth canals closed
the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck.

If obstetricians simply don't know they are doing these things - then the
criminal negligence lies at the medical school level.

Whoever is responsible, it is time to stop the obvious obstetric crime.

Thanks for reading.

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA