the dreaded "sleep thru night" thread

I suppose, every child is different.

I should clarify, though, that we did not simply leave the child to scream
but instead followed the proscribed regimen of soothing:

The first night, let them cry for 5 minutes, go in and pick them up,
reassure them, etc. then wait 10 minutes to go in, then 15 minutes. The
first night allow maximum of 15 minutes between reassurances.

The next night, start at 10 minutes and go 10, 15, 20 minutes maxing out at
20.

The third night starts at 15 minutes, maxing out at 25 and so on. By night
3 they are having to cry 15-25 minutes at a time over and over and quite
frankly I think they get tired of it and really do learn that while we may
go in and reassure them, they are not going to nurse to sleep and they are
wasting their time asking.

Once again, I'm not expert, just relating what has worked for us and our
observations about the process.

dave


"Sophie" wrote in message
...

"David Spear" wrote in message
news:mO7ub.16207$1K.12344@edtnps84...
I guess there are two camps he those that say let 'em cry and those
that
say "how awful, how can that be good for anyone?"

I dunno, think the objection is with the age of the *baby* and letting
him
CIO for *2* hrs.


We moved about a year and a half ago with an 18-month old. Very
traumatic.
I am a huge fan of Dr. Ferber and his "Solving your Child's Sleep
Problems"
book having now used the method on two children and having many many
friends
who have done the same. Yes, it is painful to hear them cry. My wife
slept
in the living room with earplugs in while I "ferberized" Erika. It was
3
bad nights, ZERO bad nights since. They are not in pain when they are
crying, they have just learned that "if I cry long enough, they'll come
pick
me up". If you got put to sleep every night with a gentle massage,
cradled
in someone's arms, maybe a little snack, how would you like being tossed
into a cold bed in a dark room by yourself? It's all about expectations
and
associations. The child must learn to associate being put in a dark
room
in
bed with sleeping. If they are always nursed to sleep, they learn to
associate nursing with sleep and the two become inseparable, can't have
one
without the other. Hence if they happen to wake up in the middle of the
night (which is normal, everybody does) of course they are going to want
(need) to be nursed back to sleep.

I had it put to me like this: adults tend to associate pillows with
sleep.
Imagine if you will waking up in the middle of the night and your pillow
has
gone missing. I doubt you'd roll over and go back to sleep... you need
that
pillow, you always sleep with that pillow. Same way with kids and
nursing
(or cuddling, cradling, rocking, whatever).

As the Ferber book dictates, you've got to train the baby to associate
sleep
with whatever environment you plan on providing at night such as a bed
and
a
darkened room.

Just my 2 cents, I'm no expert. Good luck, hope you get some sleep
soon.

BTW on the issue of naps we put our kids down at 7:30pm every night.
They
get enough sleep (even the 6-month-old) that they do not need or want
extended (2hr) naps in the afternoon. We let the baby nap whenever she
is
cranky, sometimes she'll have a nap after dinner from 6:30-7pm before
bath
time but never has a problem sleeping.

wrote in message
...
I've been reading a lot of newsgroup archives on this issue on google
and
it seems like a pretty hot topic. My son started sleeping thru the
night
at 3 months. We let him cry it out and in 30 minutes he was down.

We moved and this threw his schedule off. My wife wasn't able to let
him
cry it out again.

Now he's nearly 6 months and his schedule is horribly off. He's
cranky
some days, fine other days. Some days it's a 4hr nap, some days it's
no
nap. Nights are a mess. He's usually up every 15minutes and
pacifcying
himself on my wife and then he finally goes to bed for a few hours.
He
wakes up does the nuzzling bit for about 2hrs and then sleeps again
for
a few more hours.

We tried letting him cry it out but this time it's different. He's a
lot
tougher than before. We did 1hr, and it was killing me. His voice is
so much louder than before and if I even open the door quitely he
picks
up on it and cries louder.

He's on a set schedule again (rice cereal in the am, going for a walk
in
the
afternoon, solids in the evening, bath in the evening at pretty much
set
times) but we just can't get him to sleep unless my wife is next to
him
let
him nuzzle on her breast on and off thru the night.

We tried the "baby whisperer" method of picking him up, calming him
down and putting him back down but that has not worked so far since it
takes over 20minutes to calm him down.

Right now for 2nights in a row we went over 2hrs of letting him cry
and
nothing. No progress. He's just hysterical.

What do we do? What's the longest length someone will let them "cry
it
out"?

He's not teething. He's not gassy (he's well burped thru the day).
He's
probably not even that hungry because the wife says he's just
pacifying
himself thru the night on her breast.

He's never cared much for using a pacifier either and when we've tried
to pull the "switcheroo" (moving him from breast to pacifier) it never
seems to work.

So, question is...how long has anyone let there baby CIO? The 1st
time
around at 3 months, 30-40minutes was painful but it worked. This time
around it is so much harder.

Also, I know a lot of people are opposed to the CIO method but I can't
function at work on the 3-5hrs of sleep I get and my son is always
happiest when he gets a really long sleep at night.

Any suggestions? We just went in and got him again and he cried for
2hrs.

In article , ronj321
@spam.yahoo.com says...

Right now for 2nights in a row we went over 2hrs of letting him cry and
nothing. No progress. He's just hysterical.

Way too long. If he's screaming hysterically, he's not going to
settle down, and you're not teaching him anything.

You're not going to force him into a sleeping pattern overnight
because it's convenient for you. It takes time and patience. Pick
up, "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley, and start over.
With PATIENCE.

Michelle
Flutist
--
Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
Drift as I'm singing to you
I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
And holding you, I'm smiling, too
Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
Holding you, I'm smiling, too
-- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]

wrote in message
...
Now he's nearly 6 months and his schedule is horribly off. He's cranky
some days, fine other days. Some days it's a 4hr nap, some days it's no
nap. Nights are a mess. He's usually up every 15minutes and pacifcying
himself on my wife and then he finally goes to bed for a few hours. He
wakes up does the nuzzling bit for about 2hrs and then sleeps again for
a few more hours.

I found that observing my ds' patterns helped me help him fall into a
routine. Not a schedule, but a routine. Observation is the key. A book that
I found helpful on routines and observing signals was Healthy Sleep Habits,
Happy Child and the last name of the author is Weisbluth. Once he fell into
a routine, everything else fell into place. HTH
--
JennP.

mom to Matthew 10/11/00
remove "no........spam" to reply

wrote in message ...

Any suggestions? We just went in and got him again and he cried for 2hrs.

Try reading _The No Cry Sleep Solution_ by Elizabeth Pantley. We read
it, and while it's not a panacea it did help quite a bit.

Cathy Weeks
Mommy to Kivi Alexis 12/01

In article ,
Michelle Podnar wrote:

Eliabeth Pantly (No Cry Sleep Solution), great book, but geared more towards
AP parenting, not CIO believers.


Actually, I believe that Pantly's book would appeal to anyone who is
not already at the end of their rope. It takes a lot of patience, but
is based on very similar theory to Ferber. I used Ferber on my boys,
but modified it instinctively in many of the ways that Pantley
suggests. I found her book very interesting, despite having let my
boys all CIO to some extent. I only got to use parts of it on my
third, having found it too late for the other two. I would highly
recommend it, and I don't really lean to AP overall. I would still
recommend Ferber in desperate situations.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:15:28 -0600, wrote:

Right now for 2nights in a row we went over 2hrs of letting him cry and
nothing. No progress. He's just hysterical.

If you really did this to a 6 month old child, I feel very sorry for
him. This is totally wrong and your child is learning that his
parents are not to be trusted to come and see to his needs when
he cries.

Infants don't cry for no reason and you cannot spoil them by letting
them sleep with you and picking them up when they cry.

Eventually, he will give up and sleep, but this will scar your
relationship with him for life.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

wrote:

I would still
recommend Ferber in desperate situations.

Well, in truly desperate situations the baby is crying half the night no matter
WHAT you do, so the business of "do we just let them cry" becomes a moot point
anyway, in my experience. Not that the Ferber technique did anything for us
either.

--Helen

David Spear wrote:

I guess there are two camps he those that say let 'em cry and those that
say "how awful, how can that be good for anyone?"

We moved about a year and a half ago with an 18-month old. Very traumatic.
I am a huge fan of Dr. Ferber and his "Solving your Child's Sleep Problems"
book having now used the method on two children and having many many friends
who have done the same. Yes, it is painful to hear them cry. My wife slept
in the living room with earplugs in while I "ferberized" Erika. It was 3
bad nights, ZERO bad nights since. They are not in pain when they are
crying, they have just learned that "if I cry long enough, they'll come pick
me up". If you got put to sleep every night with a gentle massage, cradled
in someone's arms, maybe a little snack, how would you like being tossed
into a cold bed in a dark room by yourself? It's all about expectations and
associations. The child must learn to associate being put in a dark room in
bed with sleeping. If they are always nursed to sleep, they learn to
associate nursing with sleep and the two become inseparable, can't have one
without the other. Hence if they happen to wake up in the middle of the
night (which is normal, everybody does) of course they are going to want
(need) to be nursed back to sleep.


Well, yes and no. Things vary by age. The child who
is nursed to sleep all time time at 1 month may well nurse
himself to sleep most of the time at 3 months, fairly often
at 5 months, and rarely at 7 months. These things change
with developmental stages, and if you take some care, can
often be handled *gradually* without resorting to CIO. The
OP's baby is only 6 months old. That's a far cry from
the situation with an 18 month old toddler.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Eliabeth Pantly (No Cry Sleep Solution), great book, but geared more towards
AP parenting, not CIO believers.



--
Michelle P
Ava Marie July 14, 2002
"Stephanie and Tim" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
I've been reading a lot of newsgroup archives on this issue on google
and
it seems like a pretty hot topic. My son started sleeping thru the
night
at 3 months. We let him cry it out and in 30 minutes he was down.

We moved and this threw his schedule off. My wife wasn't able to let
him
cry it out again.

Now he's nearly 6 months and his schedule is horribly off. He's cranky
some days, fine other days. Some days it's a 4hr nap, some days it's no
nap. Nights are a mess. He's usually up every 15minutes and pacifcying
himself on my wife and then he finally goes to bed for a few hours. He
wakes up does the nuzzling bit for about 2hrs and then sleeps again for
a few more hours.

We tried letting him cry it out but this time it's different. He's a
lot
tougher than before. We did 1hr, and it was killing me. His voice is
so much louder than before and if I even open the door quitely he picks
up on it and cries louder.

He's on a set schedule again (rice cereal in the am, going for a walk in
the
afternoon, solids in the evening, bath in the evening at pretty much set
times) but we just can't get him to sleep unless my wife is next to him
let
him nuzzle on her breast on and off thru the night.

We tried the "baby whisperer" method of picking him up, calming him
down and putting him back down but that has not worked so far since it
takes over 20minutes to calm him down.

Right now for 2nights in a row we went over 2hrs of letting him cry and
nothing. No progress. He's just hysterical.

What do we do? What's the longest length someone will let them "cry it
out"?

He's not teething. He's not gassy (he's well burped thru the day).
He's
probably not even that hungry because the wife says he's just pacifying
himself thru the night on her breast.

He's never cared much for using a pacifier either and when we've tried
to pull the "switcheroo" (moving him from breast to pacifier) it never
seems to work.

So, question is...how long has anyone let there baby CIO? The 1st time
around at 3 months, 30-40minutes was painful but it worked. This time
around it is so much harder.

Also, I know a lot of people are opposed to the CIO method but I can't
function at work on the 3-5hrs of sleep I get and my son is always
happiest when he gets a really long sleep at night.

Any suggestions? We just went in and got him again and he cried for
2hrs.




There are 2 source of information on sleeping that I can think of:

Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Dr. Ferber
The No Cry Sleep Solution by someone whose name I cannot remember.

If I were in your shoes, which I was a while back with my son, I would
read
different ideas and see if any helped. I thought reading the whole of the
Ferber book was helpful rather than just "let them cry." IF you are going
to
chose a method which involves crying, it is helpful to know if your
situation is one in which crying might be effective. Incidentally, crying
is
not the goal, it is a painful side effect of the method.

I know nothing about the The No Cry Sleep Solution other than it is
endorsed
by AP organizations and Dr. Sears. So it has to be more gentle than the
Ferber method. I have no anecdotal info about its effectiveness.

Good luck.

S

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
The
OP's baby is only 6 months old. That's a far cry from
the situation with an 18 month old toddler.

We did it at 5 months old the first time, worked even faster, 1-1/2 awful
crying-filled nights.