Any advice for potty training??

FYI, the early potty training of babies less than a year old is
currently called "elimination communication" or "elimination timing".
It's very healthy for babies, but time-consuming for parents. It works
well for people who are able to practice full-time attachment
parenting. You can look it up if you're interested. A friend of mine
did it with both her boys and was very happy with the results. So were
the boys!

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

On Dec 18, 6:16 pm, mommak wrote:
On Dec 18, 5:20 pm, enigma wrote:



mommak wrote
oups.com:

I waas asking, because my Aunt has 3 kids as well and all
of them were pretty much potty trained by the age of 2....
But of course they still had some accidents.

then they aren't really potty trained. your aunt may have been
trained to take them to the toilet at certain intervals, but a
potty trained child doesn't have accidents. they can give you
enough warning to find them a bathroom.
anyway, my son trained a bit late, but he's autistic so it's
actually pretty normal. he was 4 years, 3 months. he got up
one morning, put on underpants instead of a pull-up & that was
the end of diapers. no muss, no fuss, no accidents.
BTW, he was changing his own (cloth all-in-one) diapers at 2
years old, well, the wet ones at least. i thought there was
something wrong because he never had a wet diaper, & then i
caught him changing. pretty funny.
lee

They were potty trained enough that they could tell their momma I have
to potty. But some times they told momma too late, and they didn't
make it to the bathroom in time.

Actually, a kid who's truly trained doesn't need to tell momma at home
- he recognizes the sensation early enough that he's able to stop what
he's doing, go to the toilet, adjust his clothing, take care of
business, get dressed again, wash hands. (He might need to tell her,
of course, if they're out & about & he needs her to find a toilet or
get him to one, or if she's cutting his hair and he needs her to stop
long enough for him to get down & go. But not as a matter of course.)


All I'm asking for is some advice.
When it comes times for her to be potty trained what do yall
recommend. Such as: Should I be asking her if she needs to go.

No. Not until she's physiologically able to control elimination
processes and she has some idea of what you want. It's kind of like
expecting a 1 year old to be able to learn to write her name. She
might occasionally, by accident, make a scribble that resembles an A
-- but not matter how you drill, she's not ready to learn that yet.

When
should I put her on the potty for the first time?

When she's developmentally ready. Do some reading -- don't just go by
what relatives say. Many of them don't really remember those days too
clearly -- my own mom is sure my sisters and I NEVER fought as
children! And many people are misinformed about what it means to be
"potty trained."

Like if I find her
hiding under the table pooping, should I take the diaper off and let
her finish in the potty.

I think you'll be disappointed. Interruptions like that make it less
likely that she'll finish. She's got a routine in which she's relaxed
enough to eliminate. Putting her bare bottom on a cold potty, with you
watching, will feel very different than hiding, all warm and covered
up.

What would be a good age for that?? Don't
want to argue with any one... I just want some advice.

I don't think there is a good age for that, because I don't think it's
a good approach (one that's likely to succeed). When the time comes,
it's generally easier to start them using the toilet for peeing, and
worry about pooping later.

Lori G

On Dec 18, 7:10 pm, (Beth Kevles) wrote:
FYI, the early potty training of babies less than a year old is
currently called "elimination communication" or "elimination timing".
It's very healthy for babies, but time-consuming for parents.

Oh, that's right -- I'd read about this awhile back and forgot about
it; I don't know anyone practicing it. Thanks for the reminder. I can
see its appeal. No diaper expense, no contact of waste material with
skin, much less irritation. I also like the name, which lets you know
up front that this is NOT a means of teaching a baby to use the
toilet.

I can also see its limits. That does require an extraordinary
commitment on the parents' part -- and one that's probably going to be
restricted to those willing or able to practice full-time AP.

Lori G

It works
well for people who are able to practice full-time attachment
parenting. You can look it up if you're interested. A friend of mine
did it with both her boys and was very happy with the results. So were
the boys!



--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html-- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

On Dec 18, 8:07 pm, (Beth Kevles) wrote:
Hi --

I'd suggest leaving a kiddie-potty where it's handy and see if she's
willing to sit on it. As long as you don't push, and don't show anger
or upset when she won't or can't comply, then go with your instincts and
see what she can do.

At this age, toilet training seems to have stages. One is the ability
to know when she needs to go and try to get to the toilet. Another
(often coming much, much later) is the ability to go on demand, such as
right before leaving the house. Another is the ability to go
independently, as in removing her own clothing and putting it back on
when she's done. Wiping is a gradually acquired skill, and you should
keep close tabs on how she does it without getting frustrated that she's
not very good at it.

Each skill -- I'm not sure if I hit them all -- can be acquired
separately, and don't need to happen all at once...

Another thing you may want to consider is the bare-bottom approach.
This approach (best done in summer, in my opinion) helps kids get the
connection between physical sensation and what comes out. The diaper
can really get in the way of this connection.

I hope these ideas help,
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html-- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Thanks so much. That is all I'm asking for. Some other people... I
won't mention any names, are being a little rude about this. I just
wanted some advice... And you gave me some great advice that I totally
agree with. THANKS AGAIN. Kristin

On Dec 18, 8:10 pm, (Beth Kevles) wrote:
FYI, the early potty training of babies less than a year old is
currently called "elimination communication" or "elimination timing".
It's very healthy for babies, but time-consuming for parents. It works
well for people who are able to practice full-time attachment
parenting. You can look it up if you're interested. A friend of mine
did it with both her boys and was very happy with the results. So were
the boys!

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html-- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Thanks again. I dont' have to work, so I decided to be a stay at home
mom, so I have all day with Ariel. I spend a lot of my days with
her... other than cleaning. But even then she is still be my side.
I've caught her copying me... I was scrubing the kitchen floor one
day, and I noticed her trying to do the same motions as I was. She was
on her hands and knees just like me. I talk to her a lot. Even though
she can't understand. I show and tell her colors... and things like
that.

mommak wrote in

oups.com:

On Dec 18, 5:20 pm, enigma wrote:
mommak wrote

glegr oups.com:

I waas asking, because my Aunt has 3 kids as well and
all of them were pretty much potty trained by the age of
2.... But of course they still had some accidents.

then they aren't really potty trained. your aunt may have
been trained to take them to the toilet at certain
intervals, but a potty trained child doesn't have
accidents. they can give you enough warning to find them a
bathroom.
anyway, my son trained a bit late, but he's autistic so
it's
actually pretty normal. he was 4 years, 3 months. he got
up one morning, put on underpants instead of a pull-up &
that was the end of diapers. no muss, no fuss, no
accidents.
BTW, he was changing his own (cloth all-in-one) diapers
at 2
years old, well, the wet ones at least. i thought there
was something wrong because he never had a wet diaper, &
then i caught him changing. pretty funny.
lee

They were potty trained enough that they could tell their
momma I have to potty. But some times they told momma too
late, and they didn't make it to the bathroom in time. All
I'm asking for is some advice. When it comes times for her
to be potty trained what do yall recommend. Such as: Should
I be asking her if she needs to go. When should I put her
on the potty for the first time? Like if I find her hiding
under the table pooping, should I take the diaper off and
let her finish in the potty. What would be a good age for
that?? Don't want to argue with any one... I just want some
advice.

well, since every kid is different...
generally the child has to be verbal so they can tell you
when they need to go, they need to have enough bodily control
to realize the feeling that means "i have to go" *before* it
starts, & to hold it for a minute or so. it helps *a lot* if
they can also manage their own clothing at that point too
(overalls & belts are out, for example).
the usual age where these things come together is between 2-4
years.
what do not want to do is make going potty a 'game' or a
power struggle, because you can't win & the child can damage
themself by withholding poo to spite you. you don't want to go
there.
i think Beth or Toto already posted the signs of potty
readiness. i don't have it to hand, so i hope they post again.
i just waited until my son was ready, so all i did was provide
'real' underwear & told him he could choose to be a big boy or
wear diapers. i did show him the potty, he saw us using the
potty, etc. pretty much from birth, and he did pick out his
own little potty chair (and tried to potty train one of the
cats to it) somewhere around 2.5 years.
in theory he was supposed to be potty trained by the time he
started at preschool at 3 years, but he wasn't. the teachers
thought seeing the other kids using a toilet might give him a
push. it didn't really because he wasn't ready. but it was
only half days, so it wasn't a problem.
when you seriously start potty training is up to you & your
daughter's readiness & personallity. i think putting her on
the toilet at 1 is a little too young, but i don't know
anything about her particular motor skills.
lee

mommak wrote in

ups.com:

On Dec 18, 8:07 pm, (Beth Kevles) wrote:
I'd suggest leaving a kiddie-potty where it's handy and
see if she's willing to sit on it. As long as you don't
push, and don't show anger or upset when she won't or
can't comply, then go with your instincts and see what she
can do.

At this age, toilet training seems to have stages. One is
the ability to know when she needs to go and try to get to
the toilet. Another (often coming much, much later) is
the ability to go on demand, such as right before leaving
the house. Another is the ability to go independently, as
in removing her own clothing and putting it back on when
she's done. Wiping is a gradually acquired skill, and you
should keep close tabs on how she does it without getting
frustrated that she's not very good at it.

Each skill -- I'm not sure if I hit them all -- can be
acquired separately, and don't need to happen all at
once...

Another thing you may want to consider is the bare-bottom
approach. This approach (best done in summer, in my
opinion) helps kids get the connection between physical
sensation and what comes out. The diaper can really get
in the way of this connection.

Thanks so much. That is all I'm asking for. Some other
people... I won't mention any names, are being a little
rude about this. I just wanted some advice... And you gave
me some great advice that I totally agree with. THANKS
AGAIN.

Kristin,
while one year is a bit young to train a baby, she could be
ready earlier than 2. i potty trained at 18 months because my
mom was working on pottytraining my brother, who is 16 months
older than me. how old are Ariel's cousins now & does she
spend much time around slightly older toddlers who are potty
training or already potty trained? that *does* give some kids
a lot of motivation to learn that themselves.
lee

On Dec 18, 10:39 pm, mommak wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:10 pm, (Beth Kevles) wrote:



FYI, the early potty training of babies less than a year old is
currently called "elimination communication" or "elimination timing".
It's very healthy for babies, but time-consuming for parents. It works
well for people who are able to practice full-time attachment
parenting. You can look it up if you're interested. A friend of mine
did it with both her boys and was very happy with the results. So were
the boys!

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html--a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

Thanks again. I dont' have to work, so I decided to be a stay at home
mom, so I have all day with Ariel. I spend a lot of my days with
her... other than cleaning. But even then she is still be my side.
I've caught her copying me... I was scrubing the kitchen floor one
day, and I noticed her trying to do the same motions as I was. She was
on her hands and knees just like me. I talk to her a lot. Even though
she can't understand. I show and tell her colors... and things like
that.

That's all good, involved parenting, mommak. But attachment parenting
(or AP) , what Beth is talking about, is a specific philosophy and
style of parenting. Some of the practices involved in AP include
breastfeeding (often extended past 1 year, if possible), babywearing,
co-sleeping--though not all AP families practice all of them. This web
site has lots more info, if you're interested http://www.attachmentparenting.org/index.html

Lori G.

mommak wrote in

ups.com:

On Dec 18, 8:10 pm, (Beth Kevles) wrote:
FYI, the early potty training of babies less than a year
old is currently called "elimination communication" or
"elimination timing". It's very healthy for babies, but
time-consuming for parents. It works well for people who
are able to practice full-time attachment parenting. You
can look it up if you're interested. A friend of mine
did it with both her boys and was very happy with the
results. So were the boys!

--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html-- a page for
the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed
as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical
practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL
one if you would like me to reply.

Thanks again. I dont' have to work, so I decided to be a
stay at home mom, so I have all day with Ariel. I spend a
lot of my days with her... other than cleaning. But even
then she is still be my side. I've caught her copying me...
I was scrubing the kitchen floor one day, and I noticed her
trying to do the same motions as I was. She was on her
hands and knees just like me. I talk to her a lot. Even
though she can't understand. I show and tell her colors...
and things like that.

you might be interested to know that there are little tiny
*real* cleaning supplies for toddlers.
i admit to being a Montessori parent, but seriously, i think
kids *should* help out.
take a look at this catalog site for brooms, dustpans,
laundry baskets, kitchen supplies, etc.
http://www.forsmallhands.com/store/
my son has been helping me cook & bake since 18 months old.
he's really good at bread he also has recently graduated to
his own Dirt Devil Stikvac (from broom & dustpan). he's
thrilled to have a real vacuum *all his own* and i'm happy
his noise acersion is under his control enough that he can use
one
lee

On Dec 18, 7:44 pm, hedgehog42 wrote:
On Dec 18, 4:00 pm, Banty wrote:

In article ,
mommak says...

I waas asking, because my Aunt has 3 kids as well and all of them were
pretty much potty trained by the age of 2.... But of course they still
had some accidents.

Which kinda goes to the definition of "potty training". A lot of times people
claim kids were potty trained early, but they had a lot of "accidents". Because
they really weren't ready. A.K.A. - not potty trained.

Our mother's generation was urged to do early potty training. It was harder to
be sanitary about the diapers, and childrearing philosophies were different.
But there were "accidents" which were considered part of it. The accidents
revealed what a struggle it is for an unready child.

Go back a little more -- say, 1900 or so, and you'll find that babies
were being "potty-trained" as early as 6 months old. Of course, those
babies were no more physiologically or intellectually ready than
babies are today -- but without automatic washing machines, it was
absolutely critical that moms minimize the amount of mess to be
cleaned up. Not only was it unpleasant doing all that laundry (and
remember, these weren't the superabsorbent cloth diapers that came
about later), each change would also be incredibly time-consuming --
difficult if you're sewing most of your family's clothes, growing and
cooking food before labor-saving devices, chopping or bringing in wood
for the fireplace or stove, etc.!

You better believe those moms got infants on a regular schedule! It
helped them know what time of day their kid was likely to poop. In
addition, like you, mommak, they also noted a child's facial
expressions and body movements immediately before the Big Event --
then they'd grab the kid, undress him and get him over a pot as fast
as possible. And be very pleased when they managed to do it!

That's why Banty (& lots more people) will tell you babies weren't
potty-trained -- the parents (moms) were trained.

If children are allowed to wait until they're truly ready, it's often around
three and a half. Ready meaning, physically can hold it, knows how to use the
bathroom, can deal with arranging the clothes, and has the wherewithall to
interrupt whatever they're doing in order to go to the bathroom. My son was
done potty training in a few days.

Girls are often ready a little sooner than boys -- my daughter was 27
mos. and my 2 boys were just past 3 years old. We did the Potty
Training in Less than a Day, and were pleased.

It breaks the whole process into steps that are very easily understood/
applied by kids who are developmentally ready. And the authors spend
some time detailing what those signs are, because it's really, really
frustrating and unfair for parents to expect a kid to do something
that he's physically not able to do.

That's the biggest danger of the early toilet training expectation/
hope, IMO -- it sets up a situation where the kid at best disappoints
those caring for him or worse, ends up being punished for it. How many
kids get abused (or even killed) because caregivers think a kid is
stubbornly, willfully, disobediently causing messes to be cleaned up?
Read the news stories or police reports -- it's frequently a "reason"
abusers give.

Mommak, I'm NOT suggesting that's what will happen if you show your 1-
year-old the toilet or try to encourage its use. I AM saying that 2
years is a long time to be patient and gentle and all those other good
things while cleaning up the inevitable accidents, for you and anyone
else who ever watches her (even for short periods of time).

If parents have to hover over a little child every minute to catch those
need-to-signs, it's not the child that's potty-trained, the *parent* is.

Exactly.

Lori G.

Hey. Thanks for the advice. Even if I were to start trying... I
wouldn't get mad at her if she failed. I'd never ever lay a hand on
Ariel to hurt her on purpose. I understand that she can't even talk,
so that makes it a little bit more difficult. I'm not exactly starting
to potty train her now... I just let her know when she is pooping... I
take her to the toilet and just show her ''that is where you poopy
at'' I'm very patient... I wouldn't beaat Ariel just cause she don't
know how to use the potty. But I do understand that there are other
people in the world like that. Thanks again for the advice.