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Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home



 
 
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  #171  
Old November 14th 03, 02:13 PM
Kathy Cole
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:08:33 -0800, "Denise"
wrote:

Oh but you are, regardless of if there's a UCMFJ. I am under just as
much the same set of rules as my husband. Everything I do reflects
on my husband's career. If I went out tomorrow and got a DUI there
would be no chance in heck my husband would make Chief next time
around. People who are married to military members are married to
military property and need to act like it.


Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the really non-military parent, the one
who has no individual or current marital tie into the military, not the
spouses of current military folk.
  #172  
Old November 14th 03, 02:21 PM
Kathy Cole
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:41:17 -0800, "Denise"
wrote:

We've been back, and we'll probably go back again soon. Our beefs
are actually with my husband's deployments. There's no room in the
visitation schedule for deployments. So if we miss visitation
because my husband is deployed, there's no way to make it up.


Yep, that sounds like you need to go back.

We live 350 miles away, so weekend visitation isn't possible.


That's a tough situation; when my husband first moved here, his ex and
daughter were in Missouri, so with us in Michigan, we could fly her in
roughly once a month (plus school vacations). It's not the best
alternative, by any means, but it's much more workable than now, since
it's only practical to fly her across the country when she's off school
for at least a week.

Custodial mom thinks she doesn't need to honor any of the holiday
visitation because we live so far away.. etc.


Like you guys buy the tickets and she won't put her on the plane? Wow,
that sucks.

We now know that the state the custody arrangement was originally
created in has a default military parenting plan, my DH just got
screwed


Oh, man.

CM has gone so far as to tell myself and my SD that my DH "chose the
Navy over parenting his half a dozen kids." When my DH was gone for
almost a year she didn't think my oldest should have any contact with
SD, because after all, "They're not really sisters..." So that's the
kind of drama we go through around here


See, that crap is just infuriating. If you can't bring yourself to
consider that you owe the ex you're still ****ed off at anything,
consider what you owe your child whom you love, you know? She owes her
daughter respect for the role her father plays in her life, and she owes
her daughter permission to love her whole family, not just her
biological family. And you for damn sure owe your child the freedom
from your disputes with your ex, so the kid can be a kid.

I can't muster a lot of patience for whatever combination of
possessiveness, insecurity, residual anger from the breakup, and
whatever else it is that results in the kind of garbage that adds more
damage to the child on top of the pain of being from a split family.
It's total bull****.
  #173  
Old November 14th 03, 02:37 PM
Kathy Cole
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

On 12 Nov 2003 20:18:11 -0800, (Silvasurfa) wrote:

In a lot of ways this is a better model than a simple custody/access
model. For example, in this instance we have you speculating that as
the bio mother does not have full custody, there must be some sinister
reason she was not granted it... but when we postulate hypothetical
cases it can be seen that there are many reasons why shared custody
may not be sought by a parent who is competent enough to have it.


Well, I don't know how it works there, but a significant reason why
people should not presume lack of fitness here just because one parent
has sole custody is because the courts are unlikely to take the time to
evaluate custody if the two parties walk in with an agreement. There's
a presumption that if you're talking about two adults who have signed an
agreement, well, maybe they actually know what they want to do and they
just want it formalized. In addition, mediation prior to court was
required (IIRC) in my husband's divorce, which also helps to resolve
lingering issues prior to seeing the judge.

My impression is that the majority of divorce cases come into court with
mutual agreement over at least a framework of custody, either because
the parents actually cheerfully agreed to the circumstance, or because
one parent agrees figuring fighting won't make a difference (usually
dad, assuming (not always wrongly, but that's changing) the courts are
mother-biased). The court may be asked to help determine appropriate
parenting time, for example, even when both parties agree that mom
should have physical custody of the kids. AFAIK, the most common court
intervention in divorce is to recommend the amount and duration of child
support payments.

Obviously, this doesn't speak to never-married former couples, where a
dispute is likely the court's first exposure to them, unless you're
talking about a gay or lesbian couple approaching the court for the
other member of the couple to adopt their baby or at least ensure legal
guardianship.

In the system you described (which sounds good to me), is every case
actually evaluated, or can parents come in with their own proposal that
the court formalizes?

But anyway, no matter how well the legislation is written to help
split families operate to the benefit of the kids, it sucks to have
decided to produce offspring with someone who you aren't happy to
spend the rest of your life with, and some degree of complication is a
natural consequence of the situation and must be endured. Adding that
complication in on top of the complications involved in being in the
military means a heck of a lot of hassle, but since it is all natural
consequences of voluntary decisions (partner selection, having
children, enlisting, not getting the dependant care plan included in
the court order etc) I'm not sure there's a heck of a lot that can or
should be done to make things different.


Can't argue with this at all.
  #174  
Old November 14th 03, 02:40 PM
Hillary Israeli
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

In ,
Kathy Cole wrote:

*On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:08:33 -0800, "Denise"
wrote:
*
* Oh but you are, regardless of if there's a UCMFJ. I am under just as
* much the same set of rules as my husband. Everything I do reflects
* on my husband's career. If I went out tomorrow and got a DUI there
* would be no chance in heck my husband would make Chief next time
* around. People who are married to military members are married to
* military property and need to act like it.
*
*Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the really non-military parent, the one
*who has no individual or current marital tie into the military, not the
*spouses of current military folk.

Well, how does it work when there is a parent in state A and a parent in
state B and the child lives 50% of the time in each state? Which state's
laws get to override the other's? Couldn't whatever process is used to
decide which state is in charge also be used to decide if in a particular
family the UCMFJ or the state of the other parent's residence should
apply? In other words - couldn't the UCMFJ just be considered another
state for these purposes?

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large
  #175  
Old November 14th 03, 03:17 PM
Kathy Cole
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:40:47 +0000 (UTC), (Hillary
Israeli) wrote:

Well, how does it work when there is a parent in state A and a parent
in state B and the child lives 50% of the time in each state? Which
state's laws get to override the other's?


My guess would be that once the child hits school age that scenario
wouldn't be possible unless both parents homeschooled or each straddled
a border, but anyway....

There had to be one state where the original orders were issued. If
that's still the state where one of the 50/50 parties is, my expectation
is that the second state would decline to get involved in a tug of war
over the case.

If neither party lives in that state, it's probably up to whoever files
first to determine the new case owner state.

Couldn't whatever process is used to decide which state is in charge
also be used to decide if in a particular family the UCMFJ or the
state of the other parent's residence should apply? In other words -
couldn't the UCMFJ just be considered another state for these
purposes?


Well, one of the current military folk can correct me if I'm wrong, but
I understood each member of the military to have an official state of
residence distinct from their current station. For example, my
brother's official residential state is Michigan, though he's currently
out west.

Logistically, you'd have to amend fifty sets of laws to permit that, so
I see it as unlikely. Philosophically, the volunteer nature of the
military makes me very uncomfortable to ever legally permit military
rules over those who didn't volunteer. However, if both parents are
active duty, then go for it.
  #176  
Old November 14th 03, 03:22 PM
Banty
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Posts: n/a
Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

In article , Hillary Israeli says...

In ,
Kathy Cole wrote:

*On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:08:33 -0800, "Denise"
wrote:
*
* Oh but you are, regardless of if there's a UCMFJ. I am under just as
* much the same set of rules as my husband. Everything I do reflects
* on my husband's career. If I went out tomorrow and got a DUI there
* would be no chance in heck my husband would make Chief next time
* around. People who are married to military members are married to
* military property and need to act like it.
*
*Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the really non-military parent, the one
*who has no individual or current marital tie into the military, not the
*spouses of current military folk.

Well, how does it work when there is a parent in state A and a parent in
state B and the child lives 50% of the time in each state? Which state's
laws get to override the other's? Couldn't whatever process is used to
decide which state is in charge also be used to decide if in a particular
family the UCMFJ or the state of the other parent's residence should
apply? In other words - couldn't the UCMFJ just be considered another
state for these purposes?


Exactly. That's why I asked about happens if the bio-parents reside in two
states. And you understand my "UCMFJ" idea - intead of having this custody
issue handled by civilian family courts,going from state to state as military
families are transferred, neither understanding or making the correct provision
for a military situation, have a uniform code always brought to bear with at
least that of another state (if there is a civilian parent) if a military family
is involved.

Of course, there are questions concerning National Guard, Active vs. Reserved,
etc., and frankly I'm not sure to what degree military dependants are under UCMJ
now (legally - surely there is a huge practical impact as Denise pointed out).
But at least for actives a UCMFJ would assure that the dependant care plan be
part of the proceedings, and won't be imposing weird civilian-oriented rules
like both parents cannot be out of the country for any time.

Banty

  #177  
Old November 15th 03, 03:21 AM
Tatjana Pantic
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

No. My parents and my kids know each other very well. My husband and I
have already been away from the kids for 10 days. They did just fine. I
know my kids, and I know which would be better for them.


Well, that may work for you, but not everybody can do that.

My dad was an army officer, and back then there were no wars my
country participated in, so he was usually gone for a week, two or
three, six at the most and he was never in...how should I say it?
combat situation, IYKWIM. There were never any problems with adjusting
to that in my family, or other military families we knew. And if he
were to go for a longer period of time, with a chance to get killed, I
would have wanted to see him any chance I get, the routine be damned.
I would never forgive my mom if she shared your opinion on this matter
(if something happened to him). I would feel the same if my DH was in
the army - I would want to see him (with kids).

(I'm sure I mixed up some tenses above, but for the life of me I can't
do better than that, it took me almost an hour to come up with this
LOL I hope you will be able to understand my point despite that :-))

--

Tanja

Mommy to Tamara (27 Dec 1998) and
Stefan (19 May 2003)

  #178  
Old November 15th 03, 11:03 AM
Barbara Bomberger
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:21:36 -0800, Tatjana Pantic
wrote:

No. My parents and my kids know each other very well. My husband and I
have already been away from the kids for 10 days. They did just fine. I
know my kids, and I know which would be better for them.


Well, that may work for you, but not everybody can do that.

My dad was an army officer, and back then there were no wars my
country participated in, so he was usually gone for a week, two or
three, six at the most and he was never in...how should I say it?
combat situation, IYKWIM. There were never any problems with adjusting
to that in my family, or other military families we knew. And if he
were to go for a longer period of time, with a chance to get killed, I
would have wanted to see him any chance I get, the routine be damned.
I would never forgive my mom if she shared your opinion on this matter
(if something happened to him). I would feel the same if my DH was in
the army - I would want to see him (with kids).

(I'm sure I mixed up some tenses above, but for the life of me I can't
do better than that, it took me almost an hour to come up with this
LOL I hope you will be able to understand my point despite that :-))


And for me, an issue would be giving my husband the opportunity to see
his kids. I cannot imagine saying..you stay where you are and ill
come visit, we dont really want you comming home, its too confusing
for the kids.

Fortunately, where I am located (and all the military folks are in the
middle of serious combat and all there for a year), all the spouses
ARE coming home on Rand R rotations. Just went to the craft shop
yesterday and saw one of my quilting buddies, her hubby and the kids
out and about. Kids were hanging on to dad with big grins for all
they were worth. Will they cry when dad leaves? You bet. Will it be
hard on mom and make her life more difficult for a week or so? you
bet. But what dad and kids are getting together for two weeks is
worht it at any price, and it wouldseem that all the military spouses
here agree.

  #179  
Old November 19th 03, 12:00 AM
Nina
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

This is Nina, the same one from MCFL.
The FRG here actually recommends to the wives that they seriously
consider whether they want the husbands home for the 2 week leave. The
stress is horrendous and it makes it much harder for everyone when the
husband leaves again. After 6 months or so u have accepted their loss,
but a midtour leave starts the mourning process over. Its pretty hard.
I know quite a few women and men who have decided NOT to take leave
for these reasons.

Barbara Bomberger wrote in message . ..
On 6 Nov 2003 14:54:30 GMT, Ignoramus909
wrote:


What if your husband, whom you suggested to decline visiting your
kids, gets killed? You and the kids will live *forever* knowing that
they missed an opportunity to see their dad for the last time.

This sounds like a real nightmare material, being at war, missing an
opportunity to see the kids, and getting killed.

I know of at least one heart breaking movie with a similar motive. A
soldier on leave getting only 10 minutes oppty to see his mother, and
then he gets killed, and then 10 years after the war his mom travels
trying to find his grave. A real tear wringer and very realistic.

Yes, I bet dad visiting for 10 days is distuptive to the kids. So then
they should be disrupted. That's the right thing to do. They should
know that they need to see their dad even if their lives will be
disrupted. Maybe they see him for the last time.


Although I am not in the military, I am DOD Civilian in the heart of
the first Armored Division headquarters. I cannot imagine any of the
women and or the children telling their husbands not to come home, or
refusing to see them.

Rather they make big signs, take off two weeks from work, even take
their kids out of school and spend as much time as possible with
daddy.

I cannot imagine my husband being in a war for a year, and neither
myself or my children seeing daddy.

I can certainly say that around here that is also the general opinion.

Barb

  #180  
Old November 19th 03, 12:08 AM
Nina
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Default Mom goes AWOL from Iraq - says children need her at home

I have had my stepsons for about 18 months while my husband was gone.
He was in Korea came home and then went to Iraq. I wanted to send them
home to their mother ( being pregnant and VERY stressed), but she
didnt want them back. I found myself being single parent to my 2 kids
and his 2 kids. FWIW, I was as much mom, if not more than
Bio-mom,since she REFUSED to take them back after their father left.



"Sophie" wrote in message ...
The step family is a real family.
Banty


Thank you for saying that. I have no personal experience with being a
step-family but I'm shocked at how many people think a step-mother or
step-grandparent doesn't count as family. Maybe they don't meant to say
that but that's what I'm getting from their comments. I think that's sad.

 




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