Flat nipples and thyroid problems

Hello

I'm 33 weeks pregnant with my second child. I had problems
breastfeeding my first baby and I need some help to be able to do
better with this one.

My first was not gaining enough weight, I don't know if it was a
supply problem or a milk quality problem; I've never been able to pump
much. I have flat nipples which turned ok after two or three weeks of
breastfeeding. I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism at 6 months
postpartum.
My baby was born at the 50th percentile and his weight dropped under
the 10th percentile at 2 months old. Until then he was only breastfed.
After two months I started introducing formula and he rapidly went
back to his normal weight. I kept breastfeeding him for 6 months and
then gave it up.

I need to know what I can do differently with the new baby:

Should I use shells to correct my nipples (they are back to their flat
selves...)? They seemed to help but I only used them after I got the
baby. Should I use them before?

My understanding is that thyroid disease can affect breastmilk supply
and/or quality. I think that was the major problem while I was
breastfeeding (I was not treated for it then, I'm taking now 75mg of
thyroxin/day).
Has anybody experienced breastfeeding while having hypothyroidism. Do
you have some advice?

Thank you
Anne

I don't know about the rest of it but as far as the thyroxine goes - check
with your doctor before you start breastfeeding your baby while still on
that medication. In fact, check with your doctor BEFORE you try to conceive.
Then again I'm not a doctor and don't know for sure that thyroxine crosses
into the milk or to the foetus. Make sure you know the effect your meds
might have on the baby.

Try this article:

http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE11A.html


FazBeta wrote in message
news
Hello

I'm 33 weeks pregnant with my second child. I had problems
breastfeeding my first baby and I need some help to be able to do
better with this one.

My first was not gaining enough weight, I don't know if it was a
supply problem or a milk quality problem; I've never been able to pump
much. I have flat nipples which turned ok after two or three weeks of
breastfeeding. I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism at 6 months
postpartum.
My baby was born at the 50th percentile and his weight dropped under
the 10th percentile at 2 months old. Until then he was only breastfed.
After two months I started introducing formula and he rapidly went
back to his normal weight. I kept breastfeeding him for 6 months and
then gave it up.

I need to know what I can do differently with the new baby:

Should I use shells to correct my nipples (they are back to their flat
selves...)? They seemed to help but I only used them after I got the
baby. Should I use them before?

My understanding is that thyroid disease can affect breastmilk supply
and/or quality. I think that was the major problem while I was
breastfeeding (I was not treated for it then, I'm taking now 75mg of
thyroxin/day).
Has anybody experienced breastfeeding while having hypothyroidism. Do
you have some advice?

Thank you
Anne

Has anybody experienced breastfeeding while having hypothyroidism. Do
you have some advice?

Thank you
Anne

Be well replaced all through pregnancy. Have free T4 and free T3 levels
checked every month or two during pregnancy and keep both in high normal
range. Be aware that autoimmune thyroid destruction can skyrocket
postpartum and the resultant bad thyroid levels cause symptoms that are
misdiagnosed as postpartum mood disorders. Be aware that thyroid hormones
pass into breast milk and so you may need additional thyroid hormone
replacement during lactation (this is normal -- milk contains thyroid
hormones -- cow's milk does, human milk does). I am well replaced on Armour
and have not had any problems producing milk. My children are healthy,
brilliant and in the robust end of the growth scale.

Dagny
Tandem nursing mom to Meg, 10/03
and Poppin Fresh, 1/05
what a long strange trip it's been

On Mon, 1 May 2006 20:55:27 -0400, "Dagny"
wrote:


Be well replaced all through pregnancy. Have free T4 and free T3 levels
checked every month or two during pregnancy and keep both in high normal
range. Be aware that autoimmune thyroid destruction can skyrocket
postpartum and the resultant bad thyroid levels cause symptoms that are
misdiagnosed as postpartum mood disorders. Be aware that thyroid hormones
pass into breast milk and so you may need additional thyroid hormone
replacement during lactation (this is normal -- milk contains thyroid
hormones -- cow's milk does, human milk does). I am well replaced on Armour
and have not had any problems producing milk. My children are healthy,
brilliant and in the robust end of the growth scale.


Thank you for your testimony, I'm glad that you could breastfeed well
and I hope it willl work better for me this time with the
supplementation. I'm only taking T4 for now, and my blood tests are
good, I'm making enough T3 out of it. I will follow up with blood test
to be sure that I have enough postpartum.

Anne

I don't know about the thyroid part, but I had flat nipples. I got a
little syringe-y plunger-y thing (like what you'd use to give a newborn
EBM) and used it on my nipples for the last month of my pregnancy. It
pulled them out *a little*, but every bit helps, right?? If you've
got a breast pump, it might work to use that.

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

On Tue, 2 May 2006 09:23:41 +1000, "Engram"
wrote:

I don't know about the rest of it but as far as the thyroxine goes - check
with your doctor before you start breastfeeding your baby while still on
that medication. In fact, check with your doctor BEFORE you try to conceive.
Then again I'm not a doctor and don't know for sure that thyroxine crosses
into the milk or to the foetus. Make sure you know the effect your meds
might have on the baby.

There is no problem there, thyroxine is a hormone not a drug, and I'm
just replacing what I should produce. I only have to be sure I take
enough of it.

Try this article:

http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE11A.html

Thanks for the link and the advice!
Anne

FazBeta wrote in message
news
Hello

I'm 33 weeks pregnant with my second child. I had problems
breastfeeding my first baby and I need some help to be able to do
better with this one.

My first was not gaining enough weight, I don't know if it was a
supply problem or a milk quality problem; I've never been able to pump
much. I have flat nipples which turned ok after two or three weeks of
breastfeeding. I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism at 6 months
postpartum.
My baby was born at the 50th percentile and his weight dropped under
the 10th percentile at 2 months old. Until then he was only breastfed.
After two months I started introducing formula and he rapidly went
back to his normal weight. I kept breastfeeding him for 6 months and
then gave it up.

I need to know what I can do differently with the new baby:

Should I use shells to correct my nipples (they are back to their flat
selves...)? They seemed to help but I only used them after I got the
baby. Should I use them before?


Hi,

I had flat nipples (not so much now after feeding 3 babies). I never used
anything on them, I always sort of posted my nipple into the babies mouth.
So, I'd pinch the nipple (to create a sandwich ?) and "post" that into the
babies mouth. Gave them enough to latch onto and they'd do the rest. I hope
that's clear ! So, I never "brought the baby to the breast" as they say in
the books, but insted took the pinched nipple to the babies mouth and shoved
it in. So I'd pinch the area around the nipple (quite a large area) to
create a sticking out bit.

I remember with my first, I'd lay the baby on my lap, hunch over her (bad
for posture) so that the breast was dangling near her mouth, and with 2
hands create a pulled out area that I could push into the babies mouth (a
nipple sandwich as they say), once the baby was latched on, I'd then put my
arm under the baby and cradle her as normal and return to a normal sitting
position. With practice, I didn't need to use both hands. I'm now on the
third baby, and I can do this one handed and my nipples aren't as flat
anymore anyway. I find that once she's latched on, if she comes off, it's
usually sticking out enough for her to get back on without doing the whole
make a sandwich thing again.

Nursed number one for 17 months, number 2 for 15 months, and number 3 is
ongoing at nearly 6 months.

FazBeta writes:
: Hello

: I'm 33 weeks pregnant with my second child. I had problems
: breastfeeding my first baby and I need some help to be able to do
: better with this one.

: My first was not gaining enough weight, I don't know if it was a
: supply problem or a milk quality problem; I've never been able to pump
: much. I have flat nipples which turned ok after two or three weeks of
: breastfeeding. I was also diagnosed with hypothyroidism at 6 months
: postpartum.
: My baby was born at the 50th percentile and his weight dropped under
: the 10th percentile at 2 months old. Until then he was only breastfed.
: After two months I started introducing formula and he rapidly went
: back to his normal weight. I kept breastfeeding him for 6 months and
: then gave it up.

: I need to know what I can do differently with the new baby:

: Should I use shells to correct my nipples (they are back to their flat
: selves...)? They seemed to help but I only used them after I got the
: baby. Should I use them before?

: My understanding is that thyroid disease can affect breastmilk supply
: and/or quality. I think that was the major problem while I was
: breastfeeding (I was not treated for it then, I'm taking now 75mg of
: thyroxin/day).
: Has anybody experienced breastfeeding while having hypothyroidism. Do
: you have some advice?

: Thank you
: Anne

I don't know nuthin' about thyroid problems, but I see you have some
good responses already.


On the subject of flat and inverted nipples, Monika had inverted nipples
before she got pregnant with Clara. We fixed the problem. Here is a FAQ
I wrote because of the experience.


Subject: Larry's Sore/Inverted Nipple FAQ
Newsgroups: misc.kids.pregnancy

Larry's Flat/Inverted Nipple FAQ.

I have posted this FAQ on numerous occasions in both
misc.kids.pregnancy and misc.kids.breastfeeding.
I have received a number of responses thanking me for raising
consciousness about this possible problem.

I have also received questions asking whether nipple stimulation
could cause pre-term labor.

The kind of nipple stimulation described in this article is
less intense than, for example, orgasm from engaging in sex
while pregnant. It is generally accepted medical practice
practice NOT to contraindicate sex during pregnancy. For that
reason, it is my opinion that there is no more reason to
contraindicate the techniques I describe for correcting flat
or inverted nipples.

If pre-term labor has been identified as a preexisting
problem or if you have a condition (multiples, for example)
that predisposes you to pre-term labor, you may want to avoid the
nipple stimulation described in this article. In this case,
check with your care provider.

On the other hand, if you are having a normal pregnancy
and have no known disposition to pre-term labor, there is
no reason not to use the methods described in this article.

Yet another inverted nipple sufferer posts asking advice and if anyone
has had success solving the problem. I respond for three reasons.

1. To say there ought to be a FAQ on this, it IS a frequently asked
question.
2. To say YES, Monika had severely inverted nipples before Clara was
born. We recognized the problem WHEN she got pregnant, and we
solved it.
3. To say that solving the problem is not rocket science. Solving the
problem is quite simple, but like all issues of reshaping the body,
it takes time! You can't go into it expecting to change overnight!

First, the human body is quite elastic (stretchable) and quite plastic
(reshapable) with the exception of bone, which is quite rigid. This is
the first thing to note.

Inverted nipples are usually a result of the ligaments along the milk
ducts which run to the nipples (and the ducts themselves) as shorter
than the distance from from the center of the breast where they
originate to the nipple. Hence they pull in end of the nipple in
toward the center of the breast, inverting it. This is the second
thing to note.

Since the tissue is stretchable, if you can get hold of the end of
the nipple, you can pull it out to a protruding position. The problem
is that as soon as you let go, it goes back to the inverted position.
However, each time it goes a little less far. Pull it out 100 times
and it stays out a while, pull it out 1000 times and it may stay out
permanently. Ths is the third thing to note.

These facts suggest a simple treatment. Pull the nipple out and hold
it in a protruding position as LONG as is comfortable, then rest and
do it again as soon as it is recovered from the exertion. Repeat over
a period of time. And this is like both orthodontia and politics:
A small force over a long period of time accomplishes more than a
large force over a short period of time.

Now. Some practical ways to accomplish this treatment...

A. Get a hospital grade breast pump (ie: one with a strong pull) and pump
on the inverted nipples. 1. You need to pump long enough to stretch
the nipple out and hold it in the stretched position long enough for
the internal ligaments to stretch somewhat. I would suggest at least
15-20 minutes per nipple (this is much longer than you need to pump
to obtain milk after the baby is born). 2. I would suggest observing
to see if the pump is pulling the nipple out to a protruding position.
If not, you need to get a stronger pump or use another method.
3. I would suggest starting no later than your 30th week. This gives
you 10 weeks to uninvert the nipple. 4. I would suggest at least 2
to 3 pumpings per day. If you have more time, go for it. 5. If you
have not made SIGNIFICANT progress by week 36, then increase both pumping
time and frequency or add another method.

B. Get DH to provide the same suction. Some people may find this
offensive, but I think it is more effective for two reasons. 1. It
can be modified to suit the needs of the individual. 2. It is more
like what the baby will do than any other method.

Here is the way I would suggest proceeding, if DH helps. 1. Since
this is more effective DH can suck 10-15 minutes on each breast.
2. DH should make sure to get the entire nipple and at least half
of the areole in his mouth and stretch out the nipple as far as
is comfortable, while massaging the deep tissue under the areole
with his tongue. This encourages the ligaments and ducts to stretch
out more easily. 3. Again, start by your 30th week. 4. In this
case you can start with once every second or third day, and work
up to every day by 33 weeks and twice a day by 36 weeks, etc.
5. I can't imagine not making progress by week 36 with this method.
But again, to increase progress, increase sucking time and frequency.

C. Breast Shields. This is the LEAST effective way to uninvert
nipples. Why? Because it does not apply ANY force to stretch the
nipple out to a protuding position, it simply presses the rest of
the breast mass back. For that reason, if you choose to use this
method, I would suggest starting MUCH EARLIER than with the other two.

Both methods A and B can lead to sore nipples or tender breasts,
expecially if they are not used to contact. In both cases I would
suggest applying Lansinoh cream and waiting until the soreness
subsides, at least from weeks 30 through 36. Beyond week 36 you
have to trade off how much progress you have made in uninverting
the nipple versus how tender you are. Another consideration is
that the baby will want to nurse 8 - 10 times a day. If you can't
stand sucking or pumping three times a day, you may well have
pain problems feeding the baby. Better to endure a little discomfort
early than a lot later on.

Monika and I used method B. We actually started earlier than 30 wks
because Monika was quite anxious about being able to latch the baby
on if her nipples were inverted. It took us about 10 weeks to "turn
them right side out." Monika had the added benefit that she suffered
no nipple soreness when the baby came. This was in contrast to the
5th or 6th week of turning her out when we had to rest a day because
of a tender spot or hairline crack.

Why do I feel so strongly about this?
1. I am a strong breastfeeding advocate, and I hate to hear of
women who want to breastfeed but can't because
a. The baby can't latch onto the inverted nipple, or
b. The nipple is so painful the mother can't stand to feed.
I know both of the conditions can be avoided.
2. Even though we had reversed Monika's inverted nipples, Clara
had difficulty latching on at first. This was quite stressful
for both of us. If the nipples were still inverted it would
have made the problem worse, and we may be in group 1, above.

This works! If you don't believe me ask Monika
( mmcmahanca at yahoo dot com )

As for the ones who have the problem, but only read this message just
before the due date (or even after the baby is born), my heart goes
out to you. Depending on the severity of your inversion, you may have
to choose between enduring relatively more pain or not breastfeeding.
However, anything you do NOW to solve the problem will be gentler
than what the baby does.

If the baby is already here, I would suggest using the pumping method
immediately after a feeding. If the baby is latching on at all, you
are probably getting all the sucking you need, and any addition may
well increase the soreness. The pump can hold the nipple in place
with a little less force.

Good luck,
Larry

On 2 May 2006 21:41:55 -0700, "emilymr"
wrote:

I don't know about the thyroid part, but I had flat nipples. I got a
little syringe-y plunger-y thing (like what you'd use to give a newborn
EBM) and used it on my nipples for the last month of my pregnancy. It
pulled them out *a little*, but every bit helps, right?? If you've
got a breast pump, it might work to use that.

I will try the beast pump, thanks
Anne

On Wed, 3 May 2006 22:21:28 +0100, "Happy Hunter"
wrote:

I had flat nipples (not so much now after feeding 3 babies). I never used
anything on them, I always sort of posted my nipple into the babies mouth.
So, I'd pinch the nipple (to create a sandwich ?) and "post" that into the
babies mouth. Gave them enough to latch onto and they'd do the rest. I hope
that's clear ! So, I never "brought the baby to the breast" as they say in
the books, but insted took the pinched nipple to the babies mouth and shoved
it in. So I'd pinch the area around the nipple (quite a large area) to
create a sticking out bit.


Thank you, I save your message and I will try that once she's born.
Anne