Vaccines and Autism: Looking for the Truth? Study the Amish

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblo...-loo_5316.html

Vaccines and Autism: Looking for the Truth? Study the Amish
On Sunday morning's Meet the Press, Dr. Harvey Fineberg, president of
the Institute of Medicine, debated New York Times reporter and author
David Kirby about the strength of the science linking the current
epidemic of neurological disorders among American children to the
mercury-based vaccine preservative Thimerosal. The Institute of
Medicine as well as the Centers for Disease Control and the Food and
Drug Administration base their defense of Thimerosal on four flimsy
studies ginned up by the pharmaceutical industry and federal
regulators who green-lighted the use of Thimerosal in the first place.
Those fraudulent studies deliberately targeted European populations
which were exposed to a fraction of the Thimerosal given to American
children.

If Dr. Fineberg genuinely wants to test his assertions about
Thimerosal safety with epidemiological data, he should commission a
study comparing American children who were exposed to vaccines to the
Amish, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists or others, who, for
religious reasons, did not receive Thimerosal-laced vaccines.

A recent survey by United Press found that autism is virtually unknown
among Pennsylvania's large Amish populations -- a strong indication
that vaccines are indeed a principal culprit of the epidemic. Despite
the repeated urgings of independent scientists and the families of
autistic children, the federal agencies involved have refused to
commission such a study and have closed federal vaccine files in order
to derail the creation of those studies by outside scientists.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., may repeat the same lies over and over again. That
still doesn't make them true.

If you want to see what was really said, instead of RFK's spin, go he
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608

If you want accurate info on vaccines, go these sites:

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...ault.htm#facts
http://www.immunizationinfo.org/immu...ournalarticles
http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/transcripts/t050719.htm
http://www.nap.edu/catalog/10997.html "Ilena Rose"
wrote in message ...
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblo...-loo_5316.html

Vaccines and Autism: Looking for the Truth? Study the Amish
On Sunday morning's Meet the Press, Dr. Harvey Fineberg, president of
the Institute of Medicine, debated New York Times reporter and author
David Kirby about the strength of the science linking the current
epidemic of neurological disorders among American children to the
mercury-based vaccine preservative Thimerosal. The Institute of
Medicine as well as the Centers for Disease Control and the Food and
Drug Administration base their defense of Thimerosal on four flimsy
studies ginned up by the pharmaceutical industry and federal
regulators who green-lighted the use of Thimerosal in the first place.
Those fraudulent studies deliberately targeted European populations
which were exposed to a fraction of the Thimerosal given to American
children.

If Dr. Fineberg genuinely wants to test his assertions about
Thimerosal safety with epidemiological data, he should commission a
study comparing American children who were exposed to vaccines to the
Amish, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists or others, who, for
religious reasons, did not receive Thimerosal-laced vaccines.

A recent survey by United Press found that autism is virtually unknown
among Pennsylvania's large Amish populations -- a strong indication
that vaccines are indeed a principal culprit of the epidemic. Despite
the repeated urgings of independent scientists and the families of
autistic children, the federal agencies involved have refused to
commission such a study and have closed federal vaccine files in order
to derail the creation of those studies by outside scientists.

The Vac Flack Machine, may repeat the same lies over and over again. That
still doesn't make them true.

"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...


The Vac Flack Machine, may repeat the same lies over and over again. That
still doesn't make them true.

True. But the facts are that vaccines have been shown to be safe and
effective in many different studies.

So while the Vac Flack Machine repeats the truth over and over again, that
doesn't make what the Vac Flack Machine say true. Facts are make what the
Vac Flack Machine says true.

Jeff

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:33:41 GMT, "Jeff"
wrote:

Facts are make what the
Vac Flack Machine says true.


LOL ... you've got to be kidding ... King Quack Vac Flack Stephen
posts delusions on vaccination deaths and injuries as "facts" ... and
then fools repeat them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblo...-tim_5374.html


08.09.2005 David Kirby

My Take on Tim
Don’t tell Arianna, but I like Tim Russert.

Yes, I am extremely biased, on account of Russert inviting me onto his
prestigious show and holding up a copy of my book, “Evidence of Harm,”
to a bleary eyed, Sunday morning America. And yes, I agree that
Russert could go further and hit harder at times in his follow-up
questions and cross-examinations of leading political figures. But in
my humble opinion, I think he did a terrific job last Sunday on “Meet
the Press.” He is to be commended for bringing this serious and urgent
debate to the prominence that I, for one, believe is merited.

Last Sunday, “Meet the Press” made history in the annals of autism,
journalism, and the American people by bringing together two parties,
face-to-face, for the first time to rationally discuss the evidence
for and against a link between mercury in vaccines and the explosion
of reported autism cases in the United States: And all on national
broadcast television (and internationally on MSNBC), no less.

The hundreds of comments I have received on the show are very telling
in terms of assessing Tim Russert’s impartiality in covering this
story. Some people felt that Russert gave Dr. Harvey Fineberg,
President of the Institution of Medicine, extra speaking time out of
reverence for his lofty position in science and public health, or
perhaps in deference to pharmaceutical advertisers on NBC. But an
equal number of people thought that Russert had let Dr. Fineberg give
his rather long-winded and circuitous answers without interruption, in
order to make it seem like he was flapping and spinning (to borrow a
term from the autism world). In other words, the old “give ‘em enough
rope” theory.

I don’t ascribe personally to either theory, at least as far as my own
experience was concerned. That 20 minutes flies by faster than it
takes to reach the end of this sentence. Really. Russert had a lot of
questions to ask, and I understand the instinct to move forward
against the clock. I was in the same position, wanting to question Dr.
Feinberg on many of his statements, but also wanting to move forward
to make my own. Incidentally, my four points, boiled to their essence
and, I think, unassailable, we 1) Mercury is toxic and kids got too
much of it; 2) We need to look at biology and toxicology (in addition
to population studies); 3) This process has lacked transparency; 4)
Listen to the parents.”

One more word on Russert’s behalf, before the angry comments start
pouring in. This is a hugely complicated and controversial topic, and
most people in the mainstream media have been loathe to touch it. To
their immense credit, people like Don Imus, Robert Kennedy, Jr., Joe
Scarborough, Montel Williams, Ron Reagan and Monica Crowley have also
brought this story to national television. It is not an easy topic to
cover, but they all recognized it as important.

I notice that the tone of the comments posted on this blog in
opposition to this theory (and please folks, look up the meaning of
“theory” before you sharpen your knives) have become angrier and more
accusatory as time goes on. Shooting the messenger is a great American
pastime, and I have no problem with it. But try to listen to the
message, too. It actually comes in the form of a question:

“Why is it so controversial to suggest that a known neurotoxin
injected directly into the systems of pregnant women, newborns and
infant children above federal safety levels MIGHT have caused a
neurological disorder in a subset of children with a genetic
predisposition against metabolizing mercury efficiently?”

And if mercury is not a contributing factor to some cases of autism,
(which could be the case, but I am starting to doubt it), then what
is? And where are the laboratory and clinical studies proving that
thimerosal is safe, anyway?

David Kirby

PS: Add Doug Flutie and Stephen Stills to the list of famous Americans
who now blame thimerosal for their children’s autism. Sadly, there are
many more waiting in the wings, so stay tuned. “What do celebrities
know about science?” my critics will surely ask. Not much. But here’s
a question for you. Why do you think they would risk ridicule and come
out so publicly against mercury in vaccines, if they weren’t so
convinced it was a source of their precious children’s misery?

PPS: Dan Olmsted of UPI is an intelligent and talented reporter who is
unafraid and refreshingly willing to go out in the field to
investigate a hunch, rather than the more sedentary methods of some of
his inside-the-beltway colleagues. He is a reporter, not a scientist,
and he never claimed to be anything else. Our job is to ask questions,
and point to possible trends. Maybe the Amish DO have lower rates of
autism. Whether the reason is genetic, environmental, or “lifestyle”
(electricity, now there’s a good use of taxpayer money as an avenue of
investigation) isn’t it reason enough to study this community? Why the
vitriol at such a reasonable suggestion?

Thanks for paying attention.

Jeff wrote:
"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...


The Vac Flack Machine, may repeat the same lies over and over again. That
still doesn't make them true.


True. But the facts are that vaccines have been shown to be safe and
effective in many different studies.

So while the Vac Flack Machine repeats the truth over and over again, that
doesn't make what the Vac Flack Machine say true. Facts are make what the
Vac Flack Machine says true.

Excellent observation. Merely repeating, OR REPOSTING, the same thing
over and over does not make it true, unless there are facts to support it.

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:
"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...


The Vac Flack Machine, may repeat the same lies over and over again.
That
still doesn't make them true.


True. But the facts are that vaccines have been shown to be safe and
effective in many different studies.

So while the Vac Flack Machine repeats the truth over and over again,
that doesn't make what the Vac Flack Machine say true. Facts are make
what the Vac Flack Machine says true.

Excellent observation. Merely repeating, OR REPOSTING, the same thing over
and over does not make it true, unless there are facts to support it.

Thanks. But reposting the same thing over and over, even if there are facts
to support it, doesn't make it true.

The facts make it true or false.

In the case of the autism being caused by vaccines, the facts disprove the
hypothesis that autism is caused by vaccines.

Jeff

"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:33:41 GMT, "Jeff"
wrote:

Facts are make what the
Vac Flack Machine says true.


LOL ... you've got to be kidding ... King Quack Vac Flack Stephen
posts delusions on vaccination deaths and injuries as "facts" ... and
then fools repeat them.

Yet, you have been unable to demonstrate that vaccines are responsible the
autism epidemic. Or that the small amount of mercury in vaccines has hurt
anyone.

Jeff

(...)

Some facts:

1) Mainstream publications in the USA have not published speculations
that
Thimerosal may be damaging. Mainstream publications in the USA
have
repeatedly published stories that Thimerosal is NOT damaging. This
is like mainstream publications repeatedly publishing "xy killer
not guilty",
without having published a single story about "xy killer charged".
This is absured behavior, and can only be planted.

2) Mainstream publications outside the USA have published such
speculations.

3) The story was quickly turned to "MMR", which has no Thimerosal.
This is a very sophisticated PR move (perhaps more than 90% of
those who heard this were totally confused about the issue, which
was the intent.)

What could be the source for such a sophisticated PR move?
And much more importantly, WHY?

4) Why spend money on top-of-the-line people like Bill Frist? He
can't possibly come cheap.

5) Studies proving a Thimerosal connection doesn't exist turned
out to be crooked (e.g. the "Danish" study.) Who made
these scientists turn crooked? Why would someone make
them perform false studies if there wasn't anything to hide?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Some facts:

1) Mainstream publications in the USA have not published speculations
that
Thimerosal may be damaging. Mainstream publications in the USA
have
repeatedly published stories that Thimerosal is NOT damaging. This
is like mainstream publications repeatedly publishing "xy killer
not guilty",
without having published a single story about "xy killer charged".
This is absured behavior, and can only be planted.

Incorrect. The reason why the mainstream publications repeatedly publish
that vaccines don't cause autism is because the fact is that vaccines don't
cause autism. In this case, the truth wins out.

2) Mainstream publications outside the USA have published such
speculations.

So what? The truth is the important thing. And the truth is that the data
overwhelminingly show that vaccines don't cause autism.

3) The story was quickly turned to "MMR", which has no Thimerosal.
This is a very sophisticated PR move (perhaps more than 90% of
those who heard this were totally confused about the issue, which
was the intent.)

Actually, the story turned to MMR because some idiot named Wakefield
published a hypothesis that MMR causes autism. It doesn't.

What could be the source for such a sophisticated PR move?
And much more importantly, WHY?

Ask Wakefield.

4) Why spend money on top-of-the-line people like Bill Frist? He
can't possibly come cheap.

5) Studies proving a Thimerosal connection doesn't exist turned
out to be crooked (e.g. the "Danish" study.) Who made
these scientists turn crooked? Why would someone make
them perform false studies if there wasn't anything to hide?

Please provide evidence that the Danish study is crooked.

Jeff