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#1
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grandparents and parents
Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing
things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd. But when DO you feel compelled to speak out. I can tell you two times we did. Backstory, I have GREAT in-laws. We have a terrific relationship. When my oldest was a baby, they asked to have him one day a week. We still paid daycare since it is hard to get a part time slot for 4 days. ANd they travelled sometimes. But they wanted a relationship and said fine. There were two issues that they did so differently that I thought their way was developmentally dangerous. When DS was 3, they decided I was not potty training him. MIL started nagging all day long, making him kinda miserable as if all the other cool stuff they used to do did not exist. EVERYTHING was about potty. So DS quietly and calmly put his foot down. He knew what they wanted him to do and he did not want to do it. He was not going to do it. So FIL started guilt and shame and calling him names. I first discussed, but when FIL was adamant that it was ridiculous that we weren't training him (as far as they were concerned), I told him that the pediatrician HIGHLY recommends what we are doing and NOT to use shaming tactics, and that I was going to calmly insist that it stop. FIL hated it. But he did. Shortly after that DS decided to be done with diapers. Done. The other issue was around food. They decided he did not eat enough. He was "picky" so they would nag, spoon feed him (this was later, at about 5 and 6 years of age!) to get one more bite into him, fetch what he wanted and if he decided he wanted something else, fetched him that. The worst for me was the nagging and the spoon feeding. The boy who liked milk just fine was given chocolate "so he would drink it," fed junky crappy food. I let it ride, it is just one day a week right? But then it started impacting his little sister who has never had any compunction about eating. And it was impacting him all the time. Got in an actual fight with FIL over this one (ending with both of us yelling "You are gonna give him an eating disorder!" at the same time. I told him plainly tihs is damaging to his natural mental and physical development. The doc says he is at the top of the growth chart. His fingernails and hair grow. He is active and energetic. We provide him with many options to choose from. The nagging and carrying on has to stop. ANd he did. To the degree that he is able. Oh one other issue, DH had to keep showing him over and over again how to install the car seat and the child into the car seat. But that was a matter of about 4 days in which FIL was fully receptive to the instruction. I think one of the reasons we were able to navigate those issues relatively easily is that they would ask me things and I would say whatever your judgement says. Do you think I should push him to nap? Whatever you think is fine. Do you think it is ok to take him to outing X? Whatever you think is fine. It may also be that they are particularly nice folks! Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts. |
#2
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grandparents and parents
I've had some issues with both sets of grandparents. When my first was born,
she was a sick baby and required surgery at 2 months and then a liver transplant at 7 months. My mom was afraid to take care of my daughter, understandably so, because she required lots of medicine and a feeding tube. So, my mom didn't have my first daughter for a long time, probably when she was around 2 years old did things get stable enough for my mom to keep her. My step MIL on the other hand was perfectly comfortable with the medicine and feeding tube and had no problems keeping her overnight once in a while. We did start to have issues with my step MIL due to my MIL being kind of a weird person and had issues, so we cut ties and they didn't see the grandkids until about a year ago. My mom believed in feeding the babies really good so she tended to overfeed them, but I didn't have a problem with it at all because DD1 needed to gain weight. My mom was a wonderful grandmother and I wish that she was still alive to be able to continue in their lives. I think it is really sad that new parents today don't let their parents have more time with the grandkids, afterall it's not like they don't have any experience. -- Sue (mom to three girls) "Stephanie" nothanks.nevergonedoit.com wrote in message ... Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd. But when DO you feel compelled to speak out. I can tell you two times we did. Backstory, I have GREAT in-laws. We have a terrific relationship. When my oldest was a baby, they asked to have him one day a week. We still paid daycare since it is hard to get a part time slot for 4 days. ANd they travelled sometimes. But they wanted a relationship and said fine. There were two issues that they did so differently that I thought their way was developmentally dangerous. When DS was 3, they decided I was not potty training him. MIL started nagging all day long, making him kinda miserable as if all the other cool stuff they used to do did not exist. EVERYTHING was about potty. So DS quietly and calmly put his foot down. He knew what they wanted him to do and he did not want to do it. He was not going to do it. So FIL started guilt and shame and calling him names. I first discussed, but when FIL was adamant that it was ridiculous that we weren't training him (as far as they were concerned), I told him that the pediatrician HIGHLY recommends what we are doing and NOT to use shaming tactics, and that I was going to calmly insist that it stop. FIL hated it. But he did. Shortly after that DS decided to be done with diapers. Done. The other issue was around food. They decided he did not eat enough. He was "picky" so they would nag, spoon feed him (this was later, at about 5 and 6 years of age!) to get one more bite into him, fetch what he wanted and if he decided he wanted something else, fetched him that. The worst for me was the nagging and the spoon feeding. The boy who liked milk just fine was given chocolate "so he would drink it," fed junky crappy food. I let it ride, it is just one day a week right? But then it started impacting his little sister who has never had any compunction about eating. And it was impacting him all the time. Got in an actual fight with FIL over this one (ending with both of us yelling "You are gonna give him an eating disorder!" at the same time. I told him plainly tihs is damaging to his natural mental and physical development. The doc says he is at the top of the growth chart. His fingernails and hair grow. He is active and energetic. We provide him with many options to choose from. The nagging and carrying on has to stop. ANd he did. To the degree that he is able. Oh one other issue, DH had to keep showing him over and over again how to install the car seat and the child into the car seat. But that was a matter of about 4 days in which FIL was fully receptive to the instruction. I think one of the reasons we were able to navigate those issues relatively easily is that they would ask me things and I would say whatever your judgement says. Do you think I should push him to nap? Whatever you think is fine. Do you think it is ok to take him to outing X? Whatever you think is fine. It may also be that they are particularly nice folks! Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts. |
#3
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grandparents and parents
Stephanie wrote:
Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd. But when DO you feel compelled to speak out. For me, I speak out if it's a matter of safety or something that will significantly mess up my parenting goals. So, for example, I wouldn't be ok with improperly installed carseats (or failure to use them properly), introducing solids too early, unsafe sleeping conditions, allowing access to media I felt was truly inappropriate, etc. I don't fuss about things that are just different from the way I prefer to do them. If I can't make an argument that there's at least some potential harm in there somewhere (physically, developmentally, emotionally, whatever), then I keep my nose out of it. Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts. Not really. Neither my parents nor my in-laws have raised any significant issues. They do some things differently from me, but nothing I think is potentially harmful. There were some things where accepted practices differed from when they had young children, but they were happy to adapt to new practices where appropriate. Best wishes, Ericka |
#4
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grandparents and parents
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Stephanie wrote: Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts. Not really. Neither my parents nor my in-laws have raised any significant issues. They do some things differently from me, but nothing I think is potentially harmful. There were some things where accepted practices differed from when they had young children, but they were happy to adapt to new practices where appropriate. The issues I had with my in-laws were completely different from anything mentioned here. My MIL would never offer advice or complaint of any kind. She didn't like to drive so that was not an issue. She DID smoke, and at one point she was living with us and I was unhappy about her smoking because I thought she'd burn the house down around us. But dh felt it was her only pleasure and didn't want to take it away from here. I had to take her to the ER a couple of times because she couldn't swallow, and then find a doctor (she couldn't go to our clinic because that was only for military which she was not - DH was deployed at the time). The doctor said she had emphysema and should stop smoking. When I told dh this, he told her she had to stop smoking and she never mentioned it again. That's the kind of person she was. She died a couple of months later while she was at my sister-in-laws. My FIL divorced my MIL and remarried - this was after dh and I were married and had a child. I tried to keep him in the loop with his grandchildren, but his wife did not want him to pay any attention to his own family - she wanted everything for herself. If we came to see him, she had a headache (I never even met her), and I gather that she made his life miserable afterwards. When we sent them a wedding announcement (not an invitation - just an announcement) of dd#1's wedding, we got it back with "We don't need any of this expletive" scrawled across it in black magic marker. So I figured that it was probably easier for him if we let him go. My mom was (somewhat irritatingly) always right about most things. There wasn't as much change between the methods she used to raise me and my sister and the ones that were recommended for me to raise my children. Car seats, sleeping on the back, no solids until 6 months -- all that came after my children were grown. She did help me a lot with bf. My mother and dad did a lot with my children. After my dad died, my mother took each of the grandchildren (at least the ones who wanted to go) with her on a really nice trip. My mom and my children were all very close. My sister's children not so much because my mom and my BIL (my sister's husband) did not get along at all. As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical. In some cases I have had to intervene between my mom and my child as to what my child should be doing to raise my grandchild. I have learned a lot here about what is accepted practice now. Now that my mother is dead (she died in 2006 at nearly 97 years of age), I have been trying to do as she did and take my grandchildren on a trip with just me. My mom did it after my dad died (at age 68 in 1973), and dh is still here with me, but he now refuses to fly, so I have to go by myself. The first two grandchildren - now 28 and 26 (both dd#1's children) - are too old as they are both out in the world working and one of them is getting married next month. And the third one in sequence died at age 2.5. But I took the next one to Ireland last spring (2007) when he was 13 almost 14, and the next oldest went to Spain and Italy with me on his Spring Break in 2008. He was 13 almost 14 also I don't think dd#1 wants her youngest child (who would be next as he turns 14 next month) to go with me. For whatever reason. Either she doesn't want him to go with ME or she thinks that her child has traveled enough (and to be fair, he has been all over Europe with his parents because they lived in England for 2 or 3 years but I'd have liked to go to Alaska or the Virgin Islands with him), or she thinks that my ds's daughter should be the next to go. She will be 12 next July and the trip I've planned is from England around to Rome and back (on a cruise). After her, I still have four more to plan. |
#5
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grandparents and parents
Rosalie B. wrote:
As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical. I think that is appropriate; however, I also think this is a two way street. Grandparents need to understand that they're not parents and no longer get to dictate how everything is done, but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Like any relationship, each person's behavior affects the relationship. If Grandma is pushy and controlling, she shouldn't be surprised if Mom gets defensive and protective. At the same time, if Mom makes it clear that she doesn't trust Grandma with the child, then Mom shouldn't be surprised if Grandma chafes under all the restrictions and eventually finds that she isn't so pleased to spend a good chunk of time babysitting. You just don't get to use people like that, even under the pretense that Grandma's enjoying it because she loves her grandkids. Sure she does--you love your kids too, but that doesn't mean it isn't an effort to take care of them and you're probably 20+ years younger than Grandma. It's work, and Grandma's done her time. In my opinion, it's my job to bring up my kids. My folks get to do what they want, the way they want to do it. We'll have a discussion if there are areas of concern or disagreement, and after the discussion, if we can't come to an agreement I can get on board with, then it's my job to take care of my kids myself or make other arrangements. I have the right to make decisions about how I want my kids brought up, but not the right to force my parents' hands, particularly when they're doing me a huge favor. And if I were in a situation where I didn't have any alternatives and I needed the help of my parents to manage my life, then I'd *really* feel like I had no business telling them what to do and how to do it. I would find that very uncomfortable. Best wishes, Ericka |
#6
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grandparents and parents
Stephanie wrote:
Reading the car thread made me think on the issue of grandparents doing things their own way. I am in accord with Ericka that if the kids are hanging out with the grandparents, the grandparents should have the liberty to use their judgement as they see fit. I would tend to see driving from point A to point B such a part of our lives that restricting that is odd. But when DO you feel compelled to speak out. I have spoken out about outings. I do not care if she takes them places as long as they are in a car seat and not up front. I do not care what other people feed them (I would if that person was a regular care provider) but I make it clear that my rule is that they are not forced to eat. I do not care about schedules or naps or anything like that. Whatever works. Again, I would expect a better routine from a regular care provider. Their Grandma does a lot of things different then I do but I only speak out about the things that I feel are somehow detrimental. I am not an overly anxious or controlling person though - IMO The biggest one is that I have spoken out about what I consider verbal abuse. Endless lectures and negative scoldings. I have one son with more then one learning disability and she has a tendency to want to tell him he'll be a stupid 40yo if he doesn't work harder. No way - not going to tell him that. When they (especially one) get on her nerves to much she'll go on and on about how naughty and bad they are, even swearing. It is just to much and I rarely visit at her house anymore because of it. She is not as up tight when she is at my house. If she is even explaining something in a teaching way she just goes on and on and on until I finally say "We are done. We don't have to talk about this all day." Ideally we'd have 3hr visits but we live so far apart it is always overnight. and FWIW - my opinion is that my boys are all just normal kids. -- Nikki, mama to 4 boy. |
#7
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grandparents and parents
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote: As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical. I think that is appropriate; however, I also think this is a two way street. Grandparents need to understand that they're not parents and no longer get to dictate how everything is done, but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Like any relationship, each person's behavior affects the relationship. If Grandma is pushy and controlling, she shouldn't be surprised if Mom gets defensive and protective. At the same time, if Mom makes it clear that she doesn't trust Grandma with the child, then Mom shouldn't be surprised if Grandma chafes under all the restrictions and eventually finds that she isn't so pleased to spend a good chunk of time babysitting. You just don't get to use people like that, even under the pretense that Grandma's enjoying it because she loves her grandkids. Sure she does--you love your kids too, but that doesn't mean it isn't an effort to take care of them and you're probably 20+ years younger than Grandma. It's work, and Grandma's done her time. I'm not sure why this is such a hot button for you Ericka. IME it isn't all one way or the other way. It isn't JUST that the mom doesn't trust the grandmother or that the grandmother is controlling. You can't stick them in pigeonholes like that. A dysfunctional family is still going to be that way even after grandchildren come along, and there's always a lot of emotional baggage that comes with family relationships. Blood relatives know each other very well, and how aware each person is of their own faults and the other persons faults will vary. For in-laws though, the parameters change. The people involved do NOT know each other very well - they are not exactly family, but they are more than acquaintances. My mother was basically a very strong controlling woman with definite ideas about how things should be done. She wanted to help with the grandchildren and one of the reasons why she didn't get along with my BIL (and also one of my SILs) was that they didn't want her to have so much influence on her grandchildren and great grandchildren. Possibly they were a little jealous. Even dh who got along with her as well as anyone wasn't as fond of her as he might have been. He liked her, but he put up with her because he loved me. In my opinion, it's my job to bring up my kids. My folks get to do what they want, the way they want to do it. We'll have a discussion if there are areas of concern or disagreement, and after the discussion, if we can't come to an agreement I can get on board with, then it's my job to take care of my kids myself or make other arrangements. I have the right to make decisions about how I want my kids brought up, but not the right to force my parents' hands, particularly when they're doing me a huge favor. And if I were in a situation where I didn't have any alternatives and I needed the help of my parents to manage my life, then I'd *really* feel like I had no business telling them what to do and how to do it. I would find that very uncomfortable. That's more or less the way we did it, but even in a case where I had no alternatives except to leave my children with my mom, I would have had no problem telling my mom that she needed to back off about certain issues. Or in most cases, simply ignoring her. She did not like the way that I brought up dd#2 (my difficult passionate child) and frequently would tell me that I was doing it wrong. Sometimes I would see that she was right and would do as she said, and sometimes not. Just because we disagreed in some areas did not mean that we disagreed in ALL areas. It got to be more of a problem with dd#2s first child, who was also a very active child like his mom, but a boy so it was magnified. My mom would tell me that dd#2 should smack him to get him to behave, and I know dd#2 did not believe in that, and neither did I since dd#2 had taught me that it didn't work with her. So I did not pass on her advice to dd#2, but not just that - I would tell mom that she was wrong, and that I wasn't going to tell dd#2 what she said. |
#8
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grandparents and parents
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:41:44 -0400, "Stephanie"
nothanks.nevergonedoit.com wrote: Have these issues impacted any of you as well? Curious about your thoughts. No, not really. Thankfully, grandparents were pretty un intrusive and I trusted their judgment about decisions. They would ask the usual, "does he still nap at such and such a time?" as they'd usually not want to knock his schedule too far out of whack but the times they had him over to visit weren't so frequent that it would have been an issue. My MIL is the one that introduced ds to the wonderful world of putting sugar on cornflakes. Up until then I'd kept sugar off his foods. Ds spent the weekend with his dad and dad was in agreement on the sugar idea but ds woke up with grandma one morning and she fixed him breakfast and that was that, lol. Aside from joking about it, it wasn't a big deal to me. I did discover my mom had fed ds a bowl of ice cream in lieu of eating lunch one day because, "he didn't eat what I fixed and he needed *something* to eat!" Hmmm..... when I pointed out that she never would have done that for my brother and I as kids she said "I'm "Grandma" now". I laughed. ~Nan |
#9
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grandparents and parents
Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: As a grandmother, and mother-in-law (which I have been for 28 years) I have tried really hard not to be demanding or intrusive or critical. I think that is appropriate; however, I also think this is a two way street. Grandparents need to understand that they're not parents and no longer get to dictate how everything is done, but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Like any relationship, each person's behavior affects the relationship. If Grandma is pushy and controlling, she shouldn't be surprised if Mom gets defensive and protective. At the same time, if Mom makes it clear that she doesn't trust Grandma with the child, then Mom shouldn't be surprised if Grandma chafes under all the restrictions and eventually finds that she isn't so pleased to spend a good chunk of time babysitting. You just don't get to use people like that, even under the pretense that Grandma's enjoying it because she loves her grandkids. Sure she does--you love your kids too, but that doesn't mean it isn't an effort to take care of them and you're probably 20+ years younger than Grandma. It's work, and Grandma's done her time. I'm not sure why this is such a hot button for you Ericka. IME it isn't all one way or the other way. It isn't JUST that the mom doesn't trust the grandmother or that the grandmother is controlling. You can't stick them in pigeonholes like that. I haven't said it's all one way or another. I've said that it's unfair treatment of Grandma in my opinion, even with other factors at play. A dysfunctional family is still going to be that way even after grandchildren come along, and there's always a lot of emotional baggage that comes with family relationships. Blood relatives know each other very well, and how aware each person is of their own faults and the other persons faults will vary. For in-laws though, the parameters change. The people involved do NOT know each other very well - they are not exactly family, but they are more than acquaintances. Which is why the son needs to be in the middle of this...but sounds like there are trust or control issues between Mom and Dad as well. My mother was basically a very strong controlling woman with definite ideas about how things should be done. She wanted to help with the grandchildren and one of the reasons why she didn't get along with my BIL (and also one of my SILs) was that they didn't want her to have so much influence on her grandchildren and great grandchildren. Possibly they were a little jealous. Even dh who got along with her as well as anyone wasn't as fond of her as he might have been. He liked her, but he put up with her because he loved me. Are you making the argument that the OP is being too controlling? I haven't seen that, personally, but I suppose it's within the realm of possibility. In my opinion, it's my job to bring up my kids. My folks get to do what they want, the way they want to do it. We'll have a discussion if there are areas of concern or disagreement, and after the discussion, if we can't come to an agreement I can get on board with, then it's my job to take care of my kids myself or make other arrangements. I have the right to make decisions about how I want my kids brought up, but not the right to force my parents' hands, particularly when they're doing me a huge favor. And if I were in a situation where I didn't have any alternatives and I needed the help of my parents to manage my life, then I'd *really* feel like I had no business telling them what to do and how to do it. I would find that very uncomfortable. That's more or less the way we did it, but even in a case where I had no alternatives except to leave my children with my mom, I would have had no problem telling my mom that she needed to back off about certain issues. Or in most cases, simply ignoring her. She did not like the way that I brought up dd#2 (my difficult passionate child) and frequently would tell me that I was doing it wrong. Sometimes I would see that she was right and would do as she said, and sometimes not. Just because we disagreed in some areas did not mean that we disagreed in ALL areas. And I have said repeatedly that it's entirely appropriate for Mom to stake out some rules dealing with situations where safety (physical, emotional, etc.) are at stake. I'm not saying that the parents have to accept anything Grandma wants just because she's offered to provide care. I'm saying that *barring objective safety concerns*, this particular restriction is, in my opinion, over the top. Best wishes, Ericka |
#10
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grandparents and parents
Sue wrote:
grandmother and I wish that she was still alive to be able to continue in their lives. I think it is really sad that new parents today don't let their parents have more time with the grandkids, afterall it's not like they don't have any experience. Sometimes, the reason is that the grown children know what type of parents their parents were. Not all parents are good parents. The grandchildren might need to be spared their brand of parenting. |
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