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Alternate methods of discipline
On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote:
(Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan |
#2
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Alternate methods of discipline
I am not a parent, but my teenage brother has just moved in with me
and I am having some difficulties with him not listening to me. I believe that if there was a little stronger punishment used on him as a child that he would not be as disrespectful to myself and others around him. Talking can only do so much (I think)I agree with spanking children...but I do think that people easily cross the line. Doan wrote in message ... On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote: (Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan |
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Alternate methods of discipline
So there is a line! Doan On 2 Feb 2004, Nicole wrote: I am not a parent, but my teenage brother has just moved in with me and I am having some difficulties with him not listening to me. I believe that if there was a little stronger punishment used on him as a child that he would not be as disrespectful to myself and others around him. Talking can only do so much (I think)I agree with spanking children...but I do think that people easily cross the line. Doan wrote in message ... On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote: (Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan |
#5
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Alternate methods of discipline
"Jenn" wrote:
: : I am not a parent, but my teenage brother has just moved in with me : and I am having some difficulties with him not listening to me. I : believe that if there was a little stronger punishment used on him as : a child that he would not be as disrespectful to myself and others : around him. Talking can only do so much (I think)I agree with : spanking children...but I do think that people easily cross the line. I guess it is water under the bridge as far as what has been done in the past; the more pressing issue being how to deal with him now. Can't even imagine spanking a teenager, BTW, although I have to strongly resist the urge to cuff 'em once in awhile I have two older teenage daughters that are currently driving me to distraction and find the best way to deal with them is the same as with toddlers; be clear and consistent. I try to keep the rules simple and have solid reasoning behind them, as well as being constant in my reactions to offensive behavior and rule breaking. I talk to them more as adults about what is going on in their lives and why; we negotiate a bit more because I do like to hear their take as to why my way is incorrect (I encourage it, actually, having told them that if they can handle a rational discussion and present a well thought out argument they might have at least a chance of swaying me, whereas pouting, slamming, anger and uncooperativeness firmly sets the 'No' in cement), and we have more talks about accountability and being a good citizen. They complain to their friends about how strict I am, but have told me many times about pals of theirs whose parents let them do basically whatever, always adding that the parent's 'don't care'. So, while they are pushing, kicking and screaming, they are also aware that the reason I do what I do is out of love for them and not just to bust their little arses -- Ruth B -- Remove your blinders to send email Stewie (reading the Bible): "My my, what a thumping good read, lions eating Christians, people nailing each other to two by fours. I'll say, you won't find that in Winnie the Pooh." --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.573 / Virus Database: 363 - Release Date: 1/28/2004 |
#6
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Alternate methods of discipline
Doan wrote in message ...
So there is a line! Could be, could be. That someone used the word does not define the claim. Of course you to logic endowed giants that makes no sense at all, now does it? R R R R Yer always spouting nonsense and claiming it defines something it doesn't. Well, not to the normal folks anyway. Here's wonderful example for you. You may recognize the writer: There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! See? Another declaration peddled by you as fact. It's not our logic, weirdboy. It's the conclusion we draw from YOUR failure to establish that "line" clearly enough to be of use. I'd consider it a public service to be corrected in my statement there is no such line possible. You invite anyone you wish, but please don't just have them keep repeating there IS a line without defining it. YOu wouldn't take that from an engineer, now would you? R R R R R Even the Canadian authorities have admitted in the analysis of their judicial finding that a "reasonable" standard is indefinable and they, just like you, had to resort to definition by extremes, all YOU got. Hell, that's the biggest strawman you every tried to perpetrate here, Doan, and you've certainly had more than your share of them. EVERYONE agrees on what abuse is when it happens....but have a terrible time defining what it is in it's less recognizated form....JUST AS THE LINE IS CROSSED. So all yah got's tah do, dog ****er, (incest AND bestiality, oh my) is tell us where the line is. You know, like [55 mph] and [No Left Turn on Red] and [No Littering]. I think a responsible parent (leaving you out) who spanks would be very very concerned about more precision in definition, don't you? You've got a lot of unfinished business to take care of here, Doananator. You challenged me to debate the Embry study, I presume with me as pro and you as con. Personally I'm more neutral. Some of what he postulates is dead on, some needs more exploration.....which has been done by others as well as him over the many years since the study. Yet you are stalling. Now why would that be? You didn't answer me the simplest of questions, by the way, to prove you have, as you claim so belligerently, the Embry study. No one has posted here they have gotten the study from you as you offered. And you seem unable to tell me what is on the page I gave you the number of. Having a little problem with honesty again, there dog lover? Incest AND bestiality?..oh my....sure hope you aren't as easy to catch at those offenses as you are when you lie here in the ng. You are lousy at bluffing. Wanna play Poker? Kane You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan Doan On 2 Feb 2004, Nicole wrote: I am not a parent, but my teenage brother has just moved in with me and I am having some difficulties with him not listening to me. I believe that if there was a little stronger punishment used on him as a child that he would not be as disrespectful to myself and others around him. Talking can only do so much (I think)I agree with spanking children...but I do think that people easily cross the line. Doan wrote in message ... On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote: (Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan |
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Alternate methods of discipline
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#8
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Alternate methods of discipline
"Doan" wrote in message ... On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote: (Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan I have some zeal when it comes to my thinking that spanking is dumb, dumb, dumb. I guess that makes me a zealot. Where did you get the idea that you should not talk to your kids? Talking is the anti-spank. S |
#9
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Alternate methods of discipline
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Doan" wrote in message ... On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote: (Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan I have some zeal when it comes to my thinking that spanking is dumb, dumb, dumb. I guess that makes me a zealot. Where did you get the idea that you should not talk to your kids? Talking is the anti-spank. S You can think what you want. A zealotS is one who are out to force their agenda upon other people. Are you sure you wanted to be one? If you have been following this thread, anti-spanking zealotS are claiming that there is NO LINE between spanking and abuse, thus you should never-spank your kids. They also claimed that there is NO LINE between talking to your kids and verbal-abuse. Using that logic, YOU SHOULD NOT TALK TO YOUR KIDS neither! Got it? Anti-spanking zealotS also claimed that spanking teaches that hitting is right, as long as you are bigger. Using that logic, if you take toys away from your kids, you are teaching them that it is ok to ROB, as long as you are bigger. Doan |
#10
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Alternate methods of discipline
"Doan" wrote in message ... On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Stephanie Stowe wrote: "Doan" wrote in message ... On 31 Jan 2004, Kane wrote: (Daniel) wrote in message ... costanis wrote: So what are the legal ramifications these days of spanking your child. I'm talking about a proper spanking, not an abusive one. what is a "proper" spanking? Seems like some of us ask The Question and some of us ignore The Question. Let's see if this person can answer The Question: Where exactly is the boundary between "spanking" and abuse? Kane There is none, according to the logic of the anti-spanking zealotS! You should never spanking your kids. You should never talk to you kids! Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... :-) Doan I have some zeal when it comes to my thinking that spanking is dumb, dumb, dumb. I guess that makes me a zealot. Where did you get the idea that you should not talk to your kids? Talking is the anti-spank. S You can think what you want. A zealotS is one who are out to force their agenda upon other people. Are you sure you wanted to be one? If you have been following this thread, anti-spanking zealotS are claiming that there is NO LINE between spanking and abuse, thus you should never-spank your kids. I am not in any great big hurry to tell other parents how to raise their kids. With responsibility comes authority. Though I do not like the way some folks use their authority, it is their's not mine. That said, I really do not think that spanking is ever a better way to enforce discipline than other methods. I think spanking is always worse than the alternative. I think it is frequently applied due to lack of understanding of other methods or the incorrect assumption that to refrain from spanking is to be "permissive." I would not, however, make spanking the legal line at which abuse is defined since that would require that these kids be removed from the home. While spanking is always worse than the alternatives, removing from the home is not always better than being spanked. Being removed from the home is no panacea. And I come from a school of thought that kids are flexible. Spanking, not hatefully or cruelly done, in the context of misguided love, can be no more harmful than other parenting blunders. They also claimed that there is NO LINE between talking to your kids and verbal-abuse. Using that logic, YOU SHOULD NOT TALK TO YOUR KIDS neither! Got it? Site please. That is a little absurd that anyone would claim that. By overstating the supposed anti-spanking zealot case, you are not doing yours any favors. Anti-spanking zealotS also claimed that spanking teaches that hitting is right, as long as you are bigger. Using that logic, if you take toys away from your kids, you are teaching them that it is ok to ROB, as long as you are bigger. It depends upon what circumstances cause you to take the toy away. If you are talking about a 2 yo who is hitting his little baby sister with a toy, they taking the toy away is a natural consequence of your reaction to the 2yo behavior. if you do not allow your child to play with a toy that she has consistently refused to help clean up, this is a natural consequence of failing to be a helpful member of a family. But if you take a toy away as a random punishment for some unrelated offense, then yes you are teaching them that it is OK to rob as long as you are bigger. I cannot think of a single behavior for which hitting is a natural or reasonable consequence. I think in my mind how I would explain to my child the difference between my child hitting and me hitting him. I cannot. They all come out sounding like all I want is for you to do what I say and shut the heck up. None of the explanations demonstrate that my child's best interest is what is at stake. So I guess I sum up the need to spank as a lack of imagination and will to think about the underlying cause of an undesirable behavior and to lash out with the easiest tool to hand. My limited experience is that it is employed largely by the ignorant who have not been exposed to anything else, frequently those who were smacked themselves. You have to be able to see that other methods work, and work better, to see that spanking is unnecessary. Fear of getting hit is a poor long term motivator and educator. S |
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