help me keep my son from perpetuating the cycle of abuse (very long)

I suspect the amount of posting one ought to do on one's personal life
is proportional to the amount of harassment one is capable of and
willing to ***completely ignore.***

BINGO! Really Lorian, I have been concerned about how personal you get on a
public forum, where anyone, strangers, people you don't know, people you know
are hostile to you can say anything they want about it. And then you get
surprised and indignant when not everyone "supports" you in the way you want to
be supportive. But you both set your self up for abusive responses and then
you interprete non-abusive responsises as abusive. It's almost like you thrive
on it on some level and it's creepy.

I wasn't going to say anything, but now I will. Frankly from the way you
behave on this ng, I have no idea what to believe about what went on between
your son and you. And that's probably what is going on in your real life.
You've lost a lot of credibility and it's been your own doing. You are not a
victim.

Joelle

"Paul Fritz" wrote in message
...

"turtledove" wrote in message
om...

wrote in message
. net...
turtledove wrote:

Woah!! I know that you and Paul have issues between each other...but
that doesn't mean that everyone has issues with him.

how you can defend him i do not understand. we keep having this same
argument brianne. how can you be my friend and at the same time defend
a
man who consistently makes fun of my mental illness for god's sake? he
followed me here from alt.child-support to harass me and just like all
the
others who have come here to troll me he has been welcomed by you and
some
other regulars instead of condemned so he stayed and got along with you
but
persisted in his harassment of me. thanks a lot.

And Cele posted once all about how sick Paul Fritz is to mock my mental
disability and how he needed to stop doing that and she thought she had
the
support of the group regulars...

And Paul talks about his daughter here on a regular basis.

really? google.com tells otherwise. Of his 1,160 posts only 128
include
the word daughter and only 89 of those are about HIS daughter. 69 are
about
lorain, 67 are about lorian, 61 are about loony, 16 are about looney, 14
are
about feminitwit, 2 are about loon, 52 are about how he discredits my
beliefs by saying it's just women's studies, 16 from feminism, and in 77
posts he just refers to me simply as LL. That is over 300. There are
probably more but I got tired of remembering all the names he has called
me.

Most of his posts are not directed at you because you haven't been
posting here regularly except for the past 2 weeks.

I've been posting here for four years. He has been posting here for one
year. I came here for support as a single parent, he came here to
harass
me
and Moonshyne and he followed us from alt.child-support to do just that.
That is easy to prove, google tells all.

oh, maybe I'll write a song about it and you can sing and dance to it
while
Paul makes fun of it. LOL!

Really Brianne, this is serious. Think about this. Why do you feel the
need to keep the peace with men who you see continuously harassing other
women?


Deja vu
I've been here before with you
this time I simply don't have the mental faculties or patience to deal
with
it anymore.

In a nutshell: Paul and I are fine. You keep feeding Paul opportunities
to
pick on you. In fact, when he doesn't You follow HIM around here until he
does by complaining to everyone about him or whoever else YOU deem unfit
according to YOUR standards.

This is YOUR battle. One which you ALWAYS choose to get into when you are
emotionally raw. It's a pattern with you. When you feel horrible
emotionally, instead of ignorning posts that you should IGNORE, you
attack.
over and over and over again.

Google me this batgirl: instead of always finding the negative look for
the
positive. YOu have YET to post this. Post how often you are told what an
amazing person you are. Post how many times I or anyone else has said
that
you have the ability in yourself to succeed at anything. Post how many
times someone has given you GOOD no GREAT advice. Focus you energy on the
positive.

*rant off*

Some random thoughts

As usual, looney is off in her own fantasy land. I think I'll do a little
research on google as to how many time other people have told looney just
how ridiculous she is..........I wonder if there is enough bandwidth to post
all the comments from all those people?

I won't waste my time looking up the little amount she posts about her son
in comparison to whining 'abuse' or trying to moderate dicussion.

Seems to me, looney is the abuser and 'stalker' with the amount of googling
she done over me snicker

As for following anyone into here.....first, anybody in the world can
subscribe and post to unmoderated NGs.....second, the parental alienator amy
lynn, aka moonshyne, aka stumpy, INVITED the world to revue her 'parenting'
time agreement or what every it was that hse had posted her......a fact that
looney fails to mention.

Both looney and stumpy have a history of taking things offline, harassing
people at work, posting names and address in NGs (including sex related
ones) filing complaints with police/courts over other
posters........................they are both the true ABUSERS

Any particular reason you're choosing to drag me into this?









*b

In news:53%[email protected],
typed:
Betsy wrote:
In news:[email protected],
typed:
Betsy wrote:
I suppose I shall discover in time, if this is going to continue.
One never knows when another may begin the change needed. I have
done what I can, and will let time tell the rest. I have learned,
the hard way, not to invest too much of myself 'saving' other
people. I share my story(ies) and what worked for me. Where I am
now, is miles from where I was 12 years ago. It took 12 years to
get here, but I am here. I can only act as a guide to those
willing to accept guidance. No more need be said. Or rather, I
will say no more.

what are you talking to HIM for? I have already admitted to needing
to change, Paul is in denial and clearly abusive calling me looney
lorain on here all the time yet insisting that he is doing nothing
wrong, don't talk to him about how hard you have it convincing me
that I need to change. That ruins your credibility. Otherwise, I
do take your words to heart and appreciate your efforts to help me
and
my son, and I love your .sig lines, they are funny.

OK, first off, I am free to talk to whomever I choose. Whether you
like it or not, whether my son likes it or not, whether my mother
likes it or not. It's called free choice, and it's a God given gift.
Secondly, I am simply letting these folks know, that while they
disagree with me on whether or not you will change, I (being
relatively new here) am going to try. They are trying to dissuade
me, by telling me I am wasting my time. I am telling him (Paul) in
essence, it's my time, I choose how to spend it. If you find it
ruins my credibility, then I wasn't very credible in your eyes to
begin with. Sometimes things happen that you don't like, that don't
affect you directly, that aren't aimed at you, and you don't like
them. Get over it, move on, don't let it bother you. If I got upset
everytime on of my co-workers I respected spoke to one of my
co-workers I didn't like, I would spend my entired work day upset.
It's not worth it.

Betsy

Since you are relatively new perhaps you are not as aware as the rest
of us that Paul Fritz has been harassing me for years now so of
course I take offense that you would dignify him by talking to him as
if he had integrity. If people hadn't welcomed him when he followed
me over here from alt.child-support where he originated his campaign
of hate against me he wouldn't still be here, calling me looney
lorain and mocking my feminist ideals day in and day out. He rarely
talks about his children as clearly that is not his main purpose
here. Most of his posts are directed at me. I wasn't trying to
control you so chill out. If he called you names and made fun of you
all the time, I wouldn't talk to him like he was normal so I don't
understand it when you talk to him like nothing is wrong.


I don't see anywhere in my post I accuse you of attempting to control me. I
know you CAN'T control me, so I would never insinuate such a thing. I was
merely pointing out I am free to speak to whomever I please. And from what
I have read here, Paul has shown integrity in some posts, not in others.
But the same can be said of most people here. I am not here to make
friends, but to get support. I understand that means I may not always like
what I hear. Getting a differing viewpoint from a father is going to be
helpful to me. To be honest, I don't care if you like it or not. I am
going to take advantage of the support here. That's what this group is
about. If I don't like what Paul or Tom, or any other guy here has to say,
it's OK because I don't have to read it. If they start harrassing or
abusing me, I will killfile them. Same goes for anyone else here. I am not
here to play petty games of "if you talk to him you must not like me" and
"if you talk to her, you are as bad as she is." Get over it. I surely
will.

Betsy
--
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with
ketchup.

In news:53%[email protected],
typed:


Lorain could really save herself some time if she standardized a template
for her posts. You see, it starts and continues the same, and has for so
very very long...................

*****Since you are relatively new perhaps you are not as aware as the rest
of us that insert any number of names here has been harassing me for
years now so of course I take offense that you would dignify him by talking
to him as if he had integrity.

@@SillySurfSpoiler: She will soon start posting about the private emails
that she is getting in support of this

***** If people hadn't welcomed him when he followed
me over here from insert any number of newsgroups herewhere he originated
his campaign of hate against me he wouldn't still be here, calling me
insert, no wait, this name was always a fav..looney lorain and mocking
insert any number of things, there are just so many possibilitiesday in and
day out.

*****He rarely talks about his children as clearly that is not his main
purpose here. Most of his posts are directed at me. I wasn't trying to
control you so chill out. If he called you names and made fun of you
all the time, I wouldn't talk to him like he was normal so I don't
understand it when you talk to him like nothing is wrong.

@@SillySurfSpoiler: There will soon be a brand new newbie that will come to
Looney's rescue. LOL,,,I had forgotten about Georgie, Tom. LOL

Have fun folks

Lisa


I don't see anywhere in my post I accuse you of attempting to control me.
I
know you CAN'T control me, so I would never insinuate such a thing. I was
merely pointing out I am free to speak to whomever I please. And from
what
I have read here, Paul has shown integrity in some posts, not in others.
But the same can be said of most people here. I am not here to make
friends, but to get support. I understand that means I may not always
like
what I hear. Getting a differing viewpoint from a father is going to be
helpful to me. To be honest, I don't care if you like it or not. I am
going to take advantage of the support here. That's what this group is
about. If I don't like what Paul or Tom, or any other guy here has to
say,
it's OK because I don't have to read it. If they start harrassing or
abusing me, I will killfile them. Same goes for anyone else here. I am
not
here to play petty games of "if you talk to him you must not like me" and
"if you talk to her, you are as bad as she is." Get over it. I surely
will.

Betsy
--
Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with
ketchup.

Originally Posted by Lisa aka Surfer

In news:53%[email protected],
typed:


Lorain could really save herself some time...

[/i][/color]

alt.support.single-parents or ASSP was a really dysfunctional news group. This discussion was in July 2003. In November 2003 a city bus ran a red light into my car and killed me. I had a NDE. I came back to life but my life was over. My son did go to foster care. I ended up getting very little medical care, lawyers wouldn't keep my case, so I moved away and started over. I just googled myself. All these years later I have gone to therapy, gone through women's support groups, gone to Al-Anon which is for family of alcoholics, and pursued numerous medical treatments. I've been to psychics, shamans, churches, everywhere. It is very hard to raise a child alone, way harder to do it poor. All of the hatred and shame that was heaped on me would have been better served had it been aimed at the men who abandoned me and my son, the men who abused me and my son, and all those women who took their side against me.

I wish people would fight the real enemy in this world. I wish people could have more compassion. I wish for more love in my life.

Best post
i like this information

Originally Posted by ;149279

Tiffany wrote:

Oh you have one of those dogs that get all excited and pees all over!

LOL. I am so lucky with this dog. Not only does she not pee all over, Lady
is a little tiny blonde cocker spaniel that was the runt of two other runts
so she is very small. And then we inherited this little chihuahua that
didn't like me, she was my son's dog but it looks like she's mine now too.
Sasha has been actually reaching for me and smiling up at me so I like her
better too. And I speak spanish, LOL. you quiero Taco Bell.... because it
tastes like dog food, he he. just kidding.

It is sad. There are no males role models for him to talk to? How
about something like that army guy that yells at the kids on tv talk
shows???

I don't know, I don't watch tv. We have digital cable and I don't know how
to turn on the tv. I feel like Ozzy Osborne, I stand there with the digital
remote and point it and click click click but nothing happens so I yell for
Sharon but alas, she does not come running to make everything all right.
Besides, I called and canceled the cable tv since my son doesn't live here
anymore.

The good men I have known like the one that I met at college but then had to
give up because I got pregnant and decided to keep my baby, well he has
remained a faithful friend all these years via mail and email and he has
gone on to become a computer software expert and sold his computer company
to Microsoft for $20 million and works directly for Bill Gates as a
technical advisor (when I screw up, I screw up royal) always remain role
models from a distance (that is what normal people do, they stay clear the
hell away from uh, unhealthy people.) He has a lovely wife and three
children and had a great conversation with my son recently where my son
discovered that he actually knew a lot more about computer hardware than my
millionaire software genius friend does and that boosted his self esteem and
gave him a desire to move to Seattle and pursue a future in computer
hardware there. I hope my son waits to finish high school to do that
though. The only other man that comes close to normal is my brother but I
forget I even have a brother because I never see him even though he lives
right here in town. I don't blame him, he escaped the crazy family and made
a life for himself and his wife and child, I try to leave him be. That's
it. I have friends at the bar I go to on Saturday nights but I don't
associate with them outside the bar at all. I have been abused all my life,
I don't take risks like letting people into my life or my home. And
obviously even after seven years of abstinence, despite my best bravado and
attempts at choosiness the guy I attracted turned out to be soo loving and
wonderful but is in fact a big time psycho, at least he has a history of
being violent to other people, I've been told by more than one source. At
least I've kept this guy away from my son and away from me as best I can but
geez. So no wonder my son is finding it hard to become a good man. They
only exist on tv.

Thats ok..... now he has no PC..... he will learn to think before he
reacts. Stay strong. All fails and he does something to your pc
again, you can always get online to check emails and stuff at the
library.

I can't live without a PC anymore than others can live without a car for
very long. And I can build one for next to nothing in about ten minutes.
But yeah, I hope my son is learning to think before he reacts and not just
getting madder and madder at me over there.

Never Bother about it mam,, its realli a common factor Nowadays.
nothing to be ashamed off.

Originally Posted by ;149258

Monday I came home from school and turned on my computer and nothing
happened... it wouldn't boot. It was as if my son had killed my dog. For
you guys out there, imagine you had a prized Porsche that you cherished and
showed off and took care of every day and your son got mad at you, had been
mad at you for a lot of things that you just didn't know how to fix and you
came home one day and your son asked if he could drive it and you said no
and you came home and your Porsche was sitting in your drive way all crashed
up, how angry would you be? I couldn't breathe. I couldn't speak. I got
in my car and drove to his friend's house and he got in and I took him to
the woods near there and told him how he hurt me and he had no right, he had
crossed the last boundary, he no longer lived at my house and that when he
went and told everyone how crazy I was to be sure and tell them what he had
done. I did not hit him or touch him at all, he was not scared of me in any
way, (he is a foot taller than me and much faster and I can't run, I have
two compressed disks in my lower back) he was annoyed. I said I was going
to smash up his computer but he pointed out that his is worth way more than
mine and I'd just have to pay for it so what's the sense in that. He walked
back to the car before I did and tried to use his keys to get in but I got
in and went home and sat down and called 911 again. They put me through to
crisis and I told them again how much worse things had gotten and to please
find some place for my son to live because he could not live with me, he was
hurting me and I was having a hard time holding it together and I did not
want it to escalate either way. Do something! I have a counselor, he has a
counselor, it's going to take more than that. His constant abuse is
aggravating my PTSD and I don't want to be abusive to him. I've been
accused of having a victim mentality on here before, I think maybe that is
what has contributed to how he has learned to treat me so please don't beat
me up about that, certainly that will make things worse. So, the police
came to my house. I was surprised to see them as I thought I had handled it
pretty well, having gotten my point across without resorting to violence but
what I didn't know is that my son had told them that I tried to kill him.
He said this in front of my only friend, who knows me really well, but they
did not listen to her even though she is an adult, they listened to him,
presumably because although he is a minor he looks like a man. So now those
who have a history of picking on me for "having issues with men" can start
blaming this on me for that. Or maybe it's all Eve's fault, but I already
apologized for that at gunpoint when I was married to my psycho ex-husband
in front of my son when he was three, he remembers that better than I do,
I've gotten really good at dissociating (leaving your body when your body
and spirit find it necessary to take a break from each other for awhile).
And before you blame me for getting involved with abusive men, they are not
abusive at first, it is like a spider's web. Very beautiful and intricate
and silky soft and smooth but damned difficult to get out of and the harder
you try to get out of it the more stuck you are. Precious few escape. And
I have worked very hard at escaping, I attract psychos, they like my fiery
personality and my lovingness combination and I never know they are a psycho
until it's too late. I did abstain for all those years but I guess that was
too late. Well, this is the biggest pity party I've had in a long time.
Probably because I haven't had this much pain come to the surface in years.

So, the police, once again, reinforced my fear and loathing of them although
they were pretty kind and respectful when they went about it by NOT helping
me. I have learned repeatedly that the police do not help women who are
being abused by men, they only know how to punish and they are good at that
and they tend to identify with the man. I have heard contrary from others,
but this has been my experience time and time and time again regardless of
my behavior or attitude or what part of the country I am in. Because my son
lied to the police about how I reacted to him destroying my computer they
took me to involuntary psych unit. It has been a long time since I have
been treated with such indignity and it really brought out the abused child
in me to be abandoned and ignored which about sums up what it's like to be
locked up in the emergency room. It is completely useless as a health care
tool. You get no sleep, you get NO medication, they make you take off all
your clothes and wear a napkin (you might make a slingshot out of your
brassiere or something), and when you ask for help no one will listen to
you, because you are a mental patient. It brings back some very bad
memories. I had two angels. I am hypoglycemic and nearly fainted on my way
back from the bathroom because they also do not feed you on the psych ward
in the middle of the night and I also needed my pain meds but fat chance I
was even going to bother asking for that, much less my mental health meds,
ironic though that may be. But for some reason I have the survival skill of
tenacity, I asked every single nurse that walked by until one listened to me
and she got me some 7UP. She also picked up the bloody gauze that was on
the floor next to my bed that was there when I got there that I pointed out
was a hospital liability but none of the other nurses would listen to me
about it. (good thing I'm not THAT kind of crazy, sheesh, what if it had
AIDS on it or something?) The other one was the security guard watching me.
Being ignored really gets to me and I almost lost it and he came over and
said you brought that book with you (a physics book) he said he had no idea
what it was about but that if I filled my head with the book there would be
no room for my mother, my mother was NOT there. And then he proceeded to
watch over me, in a good way. I even fell asleep for awhile, in peace.

They released me to the care of my counselor's office where, thankfully,
they know me very well and they know I am not a violent psycho like my son
and the police were making me out to be and they made arrangements to
contact foster care on my behalf and let me go so I could get to class. A
taxi took me home and when I got there my car was gone. Boy was I mad, lol.
My son had run the gas out but at least it was all in one piece and my
friend brought it to me and I went to school and tried to fake normal,
that's like trying to pretend that you are not on fire. Who is this child
and where is my real son? How do I get him back? Why won't the system stop
screwing around and help us? Now what do I do?

I'm sorry that you have to go through this. I don't know if foster care can help. There are other ways to help him, example, Therapeutic boarding schools that will cater to your son's needs. He needs to be under the care of people that knows how to handle this kind of situation.