Another study finds flu shots ineffective: but can cod liver oil help prevent the flu ?

Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

'COMMENT: In 2005, the Cochrane Collaboration reviewed studies that
involved nearly 500,000 people and concluded that the vaccine was "no
better than placebo" in all three age groups for which the shot is
advocated: babies," middle aged adults and the elderly" source
http://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.c...tiveagain.html

But was your grandmother right should you take you cod liver oil and
get some sun to avoid the flu? Evidently from

"Epidemiology and Infection "http://journals.cambridge.org/action/
displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543

"Epidemic influenza and vitamin D"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. J. CANNELL a1c1, R. VIETH a2, J. C. UMHAU a3, M. F. HOLICK a4, W.
B. GRANT a5, S. MADRONICH a6, C. F. GARLAND a7 and E. GIOVANNUCCI a8
a1 Atascadero State Hospital, 10333 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA,
USA
a2 Mount Sinai Hospital, Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Department
of Medicine, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
a3 Laboratory of Clinical and Translational Studies, National
Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of
Health, Bethesda, MD
a4 Departments of Medicine and Physiology, Boston University School of
Medicine, Boston, MA, USA
a5 SUNARC, San Francisco, CA, USA
a6 Atmospheric Chemistry Division, National Center for Atmospheric
Research, Boulder, CO, USA
a7 Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of
California San Diego, La Jolla, CA, USA
a8 Departments of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, MA, USA

Abstract

In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus'
intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable
seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust
seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is
common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid
hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an
immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of
inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential
of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates
the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in
neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells
lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in
protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live
attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and
serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D
deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet
radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces
the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil
(which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that
vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children.
We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's
'seasonal stimulus'.


(Accepted August 5 2006)

A fuller explanation of this study here
http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/newsl...2006-oct.shtml

Works for me .Thanks Vince

On Oct 27, 7:20 am, bigvince wrote:
Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

'COMMENT: In 2005, the Cochrane Collaboration reviewed studies that
involved nearly 500,000 people and concluded that the vaccine was "no
better than placebo" in all three age groups for which the shot is
advocated: babies," middle aged adults and the elderly" sourcehttp://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.com/2007/10/flu-shot-proven-to-be-...

But was your grandmother right should you take you cod liver oil and
get some sun to avoid the flu? Evidently from

"Epidemiology and Infection "http://journals.cambridge.org/action/
displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543

"Epidemic influenza and vitamin D"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----
J. J. CANNELL a1c1, R. VIETH a2, J. C. UMHAU a3, M. F. HOLICK a4, W.
B. GRANT a5, S. MADRONICH a6, C. F. GARLAND a7 and E. GIOVANNUCCI a8
a1 Atascadero State Hospital, 10333 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA,
USA
a2 Mount Sinai Hospital, Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Department
of Medicine, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
a3 Laboratory of Clinical and Translational Studies, National
Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of
Health, Bethesda, MD
a4 Departments of Medicine and Physiology, Boston University School of
Medicine, Boston, MA, USA
a5 SUNARC, San Francisco, CA, USA
a6 Atmospheric Chemistry Division, National Center for Atmospheric
Research, Boulder, CO, USA
a7 Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of
California San Diego, La Jolla, CA, USA
a8 Departments of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, MA, USA

Abstract

In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus'
intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable
seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust
seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is
common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid
hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an
immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of
inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential
of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates
the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in
neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells
lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in
protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live
attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and
serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D
deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet
radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces
the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil
(which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that
vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children.
We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's
'seasonal stimulus'.

(Accepted August 5 2006)

A fuller explanation of this study herehttp://www.vitamindcouncil.com/newsletter/2006-oct.shtml

Works for me .Thanks Vince

Cod liver oil is a poor supplement for vitamin D as the ratio of
D3 to vitamin A is far too low. A good vitamin A and D supplement
should contain at least an international unit of D3 for every unit of
vitamin A.
Indeed, a bit more would be better. To get 4000 IU of D from
cod liver oil would result in an excessive dose of vitamin A in
the neighborhood 40,000 or 50,000 IU.

If you go to the link Vince provided you'll see 4000 or 5000 IU (of
vitamin D3)
is dose needed by many for at least part of the year.

Smallpox vax was for poor sanitation, same old story.

We proposed that annual fluctuations in vitamin D levels explain the
seasonality of influenza........which cause recurrent and predictable
wintertime vitamin D deficiency, predispose human populations to influenza
epidemics. We raised the possibility that influenza is a symptom of vitamin
D deficiency in the same way that an unusual form of pneumonia (pneumocystis
carinii) is a symptom of AIDS. That is, we theorized that George Bernard
Shaw was right when he said, "the characteristic microbe of a disease might
be a symptom instead of a cause." Epidemic Influenza And Vitamin D By J. J.
Cannell

http://www.whale.to/a/cannell.html
wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 27, 7:20 am, bigvince wrote:
Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

'COMMENT: In 2005, the Cochrane Collaboration reviewed studies that
involved nearly 500,000 people and concluded that the vaccine was "no
better than placebo" in all three age groups for which the shot is
advocated: babies," middle aged adults and the elderly"
sourcehttp://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.com/2007/10/flu-shot-proven-to-be-...

But was your grandmother right should you take you cod liver oil and
get some sun to avoid the flu? Evidently from

"Epidemiology and Infection "http://journals.cambridge.org/action/
displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543

"Epidemic influenza and vitamin D"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----
J. J. CANNELL a1c1, R. VIETH a2, J. C. UMHAU a3, M. F. HOLICK a4, W.
B. GRANT a5, S. MADRONICH a6, C. F. GARLAND a7 and E. GIOVANNUCCI a8
a1 Atascadero State Hospital, 10333 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA,
USA
a2 Mount Sinai Hospital, Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Department
of Medicine, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
a3 Laboratory of Clinical and Translational Studies, National
Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of
Health, Bethesda, MD
a4 Departments of Medicine and Physiology, Boston University School of
Medicine, Boston, MA, USA
a5 SUNARC, San Francisco, CA, USA
a6 Atmospheric Chemistry Division, National Center for Atmospheric
Research, Boulder, CO, USA
a7 Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of
California San Diego, La Jolla, CA, USA
a8 Departments of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, MA, USA

Abstract

In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus'
intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable
seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust
seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is
common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid
hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an
immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of
inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential
of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates
the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in
neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells
lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in
protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live
attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and
serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D
deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet
radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces
the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil
(which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that
vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children.
We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's
'seasonal stimulus'.

(Accepted August 5 2006)

A fuller explanation of this study
herehttp://www.vitamindcouncil.com/newsletter/2006-oct.shtml

Works for me .Thanks Vince

Cod liver oil is a poor supplement for vitamin D as the ratio of
D3 to vitamin A is far too low. A good vitamin A and D supplement
should contain at least an international unit of D3 for every unit of
vitamin A.
Indeed, a bit more would be better. To get 4000 IU of D from
cod liver oil would result in an excessive dose of vitamin A in
the neighborhood 40,000 or 50,000 IU.

If you go to the link Vince provided you'll see 4000 or 5000 IU (of
vitamin D3)
is dose needed by many for at least part of the year.

"JOHN" wrote in message
...
Smallpox vax was for poor sanitation, same old story.

Are you saying that smallpox was eliminated by better sanitation?. How,
then, did vaccination eliminate smallpox in India and Africa?
Sanitation is mainly only relevant to the transmission of enteric viruses
such as cholera and typhoid, by protecting drinking water sources. Good
sanitation quite obviously does not reduce epidemics of non-enteric
infections such as colds, flu (and smallpox). Every American can observe
this for themselves..


We proposed that annual fluctuations in vitamin D levels explain the
seasonality of influenza........which cause recurrent and predictable
wintertime vitamin D deficiency, predispose human populations to influenza
epidemics. We raised the possibility that influenza is a symptom of
vitamin D deficiency in the same way that an unusual form of pneumonia
(pneumocystis carinii) is a symptom of AIDS. That is, we theorized that
George Bernard Shaw was right when he said, "the characteristic microbe of
a disease might be a symptom instead of a cause." Epidemic Influenza And
Vitamin D By J. J. Cannell

Well, in Queensland we have sunny weather all year round and we still get
the flu.

Recent conventional medical research suggests some unexpected roles for
Vitamin D in the prevention of cancer and other matters, and those peddling
vitamins have had to sit up and take notice. Is Vitamin D, previously
largely ignored by "alternative" medicine, now to become the "alternative"
vitamin du jour, just as Vitamin C was touted as the answer to all human
ills a mere twnety years ago?

Be careful with this vitamin folks, it is definitely harmful in large doses
throught increased calcium absorption.

PM


http://www.whale.to/a/cannell.html
wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 27, 7:20 am, bigvince wrote:
Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

'COMMENT: In 2005, the Cochrane Collaboration reviewed studies that
involved nearly 500,000 people and concluded that the vaccine was "no
better than placebo" in all three age groups for which the shot is
advocated: babies," middle aged adults and the elderly"
sourcehttp://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.com/2007/10/flu-shot-proven-to-be-...

But was your grandmother right should you take you cod liver oil and
get some sun to avoid the flu? Evidently from

"Epidemiology and Infection "http://journals.cambridge.org/action/
displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543

"Epidemic influenza and vitamin D"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----
J. J. CANNELL a1c1, R. VIETH a2, J. C. UMHAU a3, M. F. HOLICK a4, W.
B. GRANT a5, S. MADRONICH a6, C. F. GARLAND a7 and E. GIOVANNUCCI a8
a1 Atascadero State Hospital, 10333 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA,
USA
a2 Mount Sinai Hospital, Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Department
of Medicine, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
a3 Laboratory of Clinical and Translational Studies, National
Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of
Health, Bethesda, MD
a4 Departments of Medicine and Physiology, Boston University School of
Medicine, Boston, MA, USA
a5 SUNARC, San Francisco, CA, USA
a6 Atmospheric Chemistry Division, National Center for Atmospheric
Research, Boulder, CO, USA
a7 Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of
California San Diego, La Jolla, CA, USA
a8 Departments of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, MA, USA

Abstract

In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus'
intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable
seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust
seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is
common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid
hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an
immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of
inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential
of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates
the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in
neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells
lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in
protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live
attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and
serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D
deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet
radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces
the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil
(which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that
vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children.
We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's
'seasonal stimulus'.

(Accepted August 5 2006)

A fuller explanation of this study
herehttp://www.vitamindcouncil.com/newsletter/2006-oct.shtml

Works for me .Thanks Vince

Cod liver oil is a poor supplement for vitamin D as the ratio of
D3 to vitamin A is far too low. A good vitamin A and D supplement
should contain at least an international unit of D3 for every unit of
vitamin A.
Indeed, a bit more would be better. To get 4000 IU of D from
cod liver oil would result in an excessive dose of vitamin A in
the neighborhood 40,000 or 50,000 IU.

If you go to the link Vince provided you'll see 4000 or 5000 IU (of
vitamin D3)
is dose needed by many for at least part of the year.

On Oct 27, 9:20 am, bigvince wrote:
Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/14/1373 concludes:
"Achieving optimal success in preventing and controlling influenza
among the elderly may require more immunogenic vaccines and new
strategies that induce greater levels of herd immunity and thereby
interrupt influenza transmission in communities. More effective
vaccines for the elderly are under development but have not yet been
approved for use in the United States. Vaccination of children in the
United States has been associated with reductions in illness in
households41 and in the community,42 and in Japan with lower mortality
rates among the elderly.43 However, these studies are not conclusive,
44,45 and additional research is needed to define the benefits among
the elderly that might be realized from vaccinating children. In the
meantime, vaccination rates of elderly persons remain stagnant and
well below the 2010 goal of 90%.3 Even as we wait for new vaccines and
new strategies, patients, their health care providers, and
policymakers should renew efforts to improve the delivery of current
influenza vaccines to this high-priority group. Hospitalizations and
deaths will be prevented if we can succeed."

--
Ron

ClearOn Oct 27, 1:42 pm, "Peter Moran"
wrote:
"JOHN" wrote in message

...

Smallpox vax was for poor sanitation, same old story.

Are you saying that smallpox was eliminated by better sanitation?. How,
then, did vaccination eliminate smallpox in India and Africa?
Sanitation is mainly only relevant to the transmission of enteric viruses
such as cholera and typhoid, by protecting drinking water sources. Good
sanitation quite obviously does not reduce epidemics of non-enteric
infections such as colds, flu (and smallpox). Every American can observe
this for themselves..


Well, in Queensland we have sunny weather all year round and we still get
the flu.

Such is a good point. Though it should be noted that even it such
climates
people often have rather low serum 25 OH vitamin D levels due to
indoors
living or how they dress or just the effect of aging on the skin
and it ability to convert cholesterol into the provitamin.
It would be interesting to see the number for age, morbidity, and
mortality from influneza and then compare the serum 25 OH vitamin
D3 levels in such a land as yours.


Recent conventional medical research suggests some unexpected roles for
Vitamin D in the prevention of cancer and other matters, and those peddling
vitamins have had to sit up and take notice. Is Vitamin D, previously
largely ignored by "alternative" medicine, now to become the "alternative"
vitamin du jour, just as Vitamin C was touted as the answer to all human
ills a mere twnety years ago?

Be careful with this vitamin folks, it is definitely harmful in large doses
throught increased calcium absorption.

It takes huge doses in number of international units for this to be a
problem
in most in the population. For most it will likely take huge doses
plus
lots of sun to reach a problem levels. Your concern is overblown.
Don't get me wrong it would NOT for example suggest rPTH therapy and
high dose vitamin D as a wise action.

Vitamins do need to studied in combination with related chemicals i.e.
vitamin C with flavonoids and antioxidants. There are issue of
antioxidant recycling that come into play. Lester Packer had a nice
discussion of the antioxidant network in a couple of journals
some years ago.

Vitamins E, K, D, A all have interlocking properties such that
vitamin E status affects vitamin K levels in personal with marginal
standard diets, vitamin D and A have somewhat opposing actions,
vitamin K helps to prevent ectopic calcifications, etc.

Nor should vitamins and diet be seen as the only knob that
should be turned and altered.

Pete there are excesses on both sides. Pete the problem with
your side is that it seeks to shove it point of view down the
throats of the rest of the population by force of law.
Rather than permitting the market place of ideas to
sort out the issues with time (generations) and ample research
at all the doses and combinations possible.

Hopefully we can carefully avoid your positions on all issues even
those where you are right as even there you are more wrong than
right.

I do agree with you that JOHN is a nut even when he is right.
If JOHN didn't exist you'd need to create him as a strawman.

Trig




PM



http://www.whale.to/a/cannell.html
wrote in message
roups.com...
On Oct 27, 7:20 am, bigvince wrote:
Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

'COMMENT: In 2005, the Cochrane Collaboration reviewed studies that
involved nearly 500,000 people and concluded that the vaccine was "no
better than placebo" in all three age groups for which the shot is
advocated: babies," middle aged adults and the elderly"
sourcehttp://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.com/2007/10/flu-shot-proven-to-be-...

But was your grandmother right should you take you cod liver oil and
get some sun to avoid the flu? Evidently from

"Epidemiology and Infection "http://journals.cambridge.org/action/
displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=469543

"Epidemic influenza and vitamin D"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------**-----
J. J. CANNELL a1c1, R. VIETH a2, J. C. UMHAU a3, M. F. HOLICK a4, W.
B. GRANT a5, S. MADRONICH a6, C. F. GARLAND a7 and E. GIOVANNUCCI a8
a1 Atascadero State Hospital, 10333 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA,
USA
a2 Mount Sinai Hospital, Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, Department
of Medicine, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
a3 Laboratory of Clinical and Translational Studies, National
Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of
Health, Bethesda, MD
a4 Departments of Medicine and Physiology, Boston University School of
Medicine, Boston, MA, USA
a5 SUNARC, San Francisco, CA, USA
a6 Atmospheric Chemistry Division, National Center for Atmospheric
Research, Boulder, CO, USA
a7 Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of
California San Diego, La Jolla, CA, USA
a8 Departments of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, MA, USA

Abstract

In 1981, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson proposed that a 'seasonal stimulus'
intimately associated with solar radiation explained the remarkable
seasonality of epidemic influenza. Solar radiation triggers robust
seasonal vitamin D production in the skin; vitamin D deficiency is
common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D, a steroid
hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. 1,25(OH)2D acts as an
immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of
inflammatory cytokines and increasing the 'oxidative burst' potential
of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates
the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in
neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells
lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in
protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live
attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and
serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D
deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections. Ultraviolet
radiation (either from artificial sources or from sunlight) reduces
the incidence of viral respiratory infections, as does cod liver oil
(which contains vitamin D). An interventional study showed that
vitamin D reduces the incidence of respiratory infections in children.
We conclude that vitamin D, or lack of it, may be Hope-Simpson's
'seasonal stimulus'.

(Accepted August 5 2006)

A fuller explanation of this study
herehttp://www.vitamindcouncil.com/newsletter/2006-oct.shtml

Works for me .Thanks Vince

Cod liver oil is a poor supplement for vitamin D as the ratio of
D3 to vitamin A is far too low. A good vitamin A and D supplement
should contain at least an international unit of D3 for every unit of
vitamin A.
Indeed, a bit more would be better. To get 4000 IU of D from
cod liver oil would result in an excessive dose of vitamin A in
the neighborhood 40,000 or 50,000 IU.

If you go to the link Vince provided you'll see 4000 or 5000 IU (of
vitamin D3)
is dose needed by many for at least part of the year.

On Oct 27, 5:42 pm, "Peter Moran" wrote:
"JOHN" wrote in message

...

Smallpox vax was for poor sanitation, same old story.


Peter the moron replied:


Are you saying that smallpox was eliminated by better sanitation?. How,
then, did vaccination eliminate smallpox in India and Africa?

Your informantion is lacking. If you were to look at the medical
reports of the British army
concerning smallpox in India, you would quickly learn that vaccination
had NO effect. The
only action that controlled the smallpox was SANITATION.

Sanitation is mainly only relevant to the transmission of enteric viruses
such as cholera and typhoid, by protecting drinking water sources. Good
sanitation quite obviously does not reduce epidemics of non-enteric
infections such as colds, flu (and smallpox). Every American can observe
this for themselves..

And every American can see you do not know what you are talking about.
Colds and flus are not "caught" nor "contagious."
A cold or the flu is a "healing response" conducted by a vital,
living , organism in an effort to eliminate
accumulated toxins and poisons within the organic system.
Sanitation can have no "effect" on such an occurance since the poisons
are "internal" and not "external."


Well, in Queensland we have sunny weather all year round and we still get
the flu.

Yep, the flu is a "healing effort" on the part of a living, vital
organism. The flu has
nothing to do with some bogus virus and only something to do with the
lack of
vitamin D and other needed nutritents.

PM

Yep, PM still stand for Peter the Moron.

DrCee
Not a member of the medical monopoly
Not a member of the church of modern medicine

On Oct 27, 9:03 pm, Ron Peterson wrote:
On Oct 27, 9:20 am, bigvince wrote:

Yet another study finds flu shots ineffective

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...1373concludes:
"Achieving optimal success in preventing and controlling influenza
among the elderly may require more immunogenic vaccines and new
strategies that induce greater levels of herd immunity and thereby
interrupt influenza transmission in communities. More effective
vaccines for the elderly are under development but have not yet been
approved for use in the United States. Vaccination of children in the
United States has been associated with reductions in illness in
households41 and in the community,42 and in Japan with lower mortality
rates among the elderly.43 However, these studies are not conclusive,
44,45 and additional research is needed to define the benefits among
the elderly that might be realized from vaccinating children. In the
meantime, vaccination rates of elderly persons remain stagnant and
well below the 2010 goal of 90%.3 Even as we wait for new vaccines and
new strategies, patients, their health care providers, and
policymakers should renew efforts to improve the delivery of current
influenza vaccines to this high-priority group. Hospitalizations and
deaths will be prevented if we can succeed."

--
Ron

Other experts differ....

Flu Vaccine Has No Benefits for the Elderly DG news
"LONDON, U.K. -- October 23, 2007 -- A study published online in the
journal Vaccine found the influenza vaccine had no impact on emergency
admissions in the elderly."......

.....' Vaccinated patients had a non-significant 20% increase in risk
of admission.'

.....The research fuels growing doubts over the effectiveness of flu
vaccination, following a recent review in The Lancet Infectious
Diseases that claimed the supporting evidence had been 'greatly
exaggerated'


.....'Jo Haynes, Editor of Pulse, said: 'Each year, GPs face weeks of
frantically busy flu clinics in order to make sure everyone eligible
is vaccinated. It's a stressful and extremely expensive business, and
doctors and patients need to know that the whole process is
worthwhile. It's time ministers took notice of the growing doubts over
flu vaccination, and commissioned a large-scale trial to sort out once
and for all whether vaccination works.'

On Oct 30, 10:50 am, bigvince wrote:

Other experts differ....

Then post the academic journal paper that says people shouldn't get
flu shots.

Your first link in this thread lead to article
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/con...07elderly.html
which states:
"Overall, this study provides additional support for the current
strategy to vaccinate elderly adults," Treanor asserts. The
methodologic issues are important, and the precise magnitude of the
benefits of vaccination is not yet clear, but it is clear that
vaccination is beneficial and should be used widely, he adds.

--
Ron

On Oct 30, 1:34 pm, Ron Peterson wrote:


Your first link in this thread lead to articlehttp://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/general/news/oct09...
which states:
"Overall, this study provides additional support for the current
strategy to vaccinate elderly adults," Treanor asserts. The
methodologic issues are important, and the precise magnitude of the
benefits of vaccination is not yet clear, but it is clear that
vaccination is beneficial and should be used widely, he adds.

--
Ron

Geez Ron just go to the link you refered to .Here's what it said in
part

Fresh doubts, new support for flu shots for seniors
Robert Roos News Editor


Oct 9, 2007 (CIDRAP News) - In quick succession, the view that
influenza shots yield life-saving benefits for elderly people has come
under serious attack and received fresh support in recent weeks.

One group of experts, writing in the October issue of Lancet
Infectious Diseases, argued that the mortality benefits of flu shots
for the elderly have been greatly exaggerated because of a subtle bias
and other methodologic problems in many of the relevant studies.

"The remaining evidence base is currently insufficient to indicate the
magnitude of the mortality benefit, if any, that elderly people derive
from the vaccination programme," says the analysis by Lone Simonsen,
PhD, of George Washington University in Washington, DC, and
colleagues.

But in the Oct 4 New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), another team
of experts presented a study showing that in the course of up to 10
flu seasons, flu shots reduced the risk of hospitalization for
pneumonia and flu by 27% and shrank the risk of death by 48% for
elderly members of three health maintenance organizations (HMOs). The
study addresses several of the methodologic problems raised by the
Lancet authors. .........


.............Shay said the CDC is contemplating a special initiative to
help resolve the controversy over the value of flu immunization for
seniors. "Sometime in 2008 the CDC hopes to get together a panel of
consultants to bring about ways to move forward and find ways to
resolve this controversy," he said. By assembling experts from the
different camps, the agency hopes to come up with recommendations to
guide the next series of studies, he said.

Simonsen L, Taylor RJ, Viboud C, et al. Mortality benefits of
influenza vaccination in elderly people: an ongoing controversy.
Lancet Infect Dis 2007 Oct;7:658-66 [Abstract]

Jefferson T, Di Pietrantonj C. Inactivated influenza vaccines in the
elderly-are you sure? (Editorial) Lancet 2007 Oct 6;370(9594):
1199-1200

Nichol KL, Nordin JD, Nelson DB, et al. Effectiveness of influenza
vaccine in the community-dwelling elderly. N Engl J Med 2007 Oct
4;357(14):1373-81 [Full text]

Treanor JD. Influenza-the goal of control. (Editorial) N Engl J Med
2007 Oct 4;357(14):1439-41 [Full text]


As for the abstact Right there. From the same link Simonsen L,
Taylor RJ, Viboud C, et al. Mortality benefits of influenza
vaccination in elderly people: an ongoing controversy. Lancet Infect
Dis 2007 Oct;7:658-66 [Abstract]

Just click on it.

Thanks Vince