Why 3 different shots for MMR?

Some people want baby to have 3 separate M - M - R shots. Why? If they
fear a reaction, wouldnt it be the same chance since the ingredients would
be the same in each separate as compared to the one MMR?

Please advise.

Thanks

"Jay" wrote in message . net...
Some people want baby to have 3 separate M - M - R shots. Why? If they
fear a reaction, wouldnt it be the same chance since the ingredients would
be the same in each separate as compared to the one MMR?

The one advantage is that if there was a reaction you would know which
component did it and be able to give the other two with more safety. I
think this is a small gain that is more than outweighed by the big
negative of needing 6 trips to get the vaccine rather than two.

Most of the people I have seen asking about it have not even been this
rational. They usually list a fear of the combined vaccines being too
much stimulation for the immune system to take all at once. This, of
course, supposes rather implausible idea that the immune system can
only handle one exposure at a time and ignores that fact that the vast
mnajority of these kids have already had multiple occassions of
exposure to several vaccine son one day when much younger.

Some believe that the combined shot is more likely to cause autism or
some other problems despite the fact that there is no plausible reason
that this might be the case.

--
CBI, MD

"Jay" wrote in message . net...
Some people want baby to have 3 separate M - M - R shots. Why? If they
fear a reaction, wouldnt it be the same chance since the ingredients would
be the same in each separate as compared to the one MMR?

Please advise.

Thanks

3 at once is a bit much for the immune system which is why you get
autism more from the triple than the 3 solo.

Informed parents don't use either http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html


"As a clinician, my current belief which guides my practice with these
children is that any child given the HepB vaccination at birth and
subsequent boosters along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of
neurotoxin in the form of the ethyl mercury in the thimerosal
preservative used in the vaccine. In any child with a genetic immune
susceptibility (probably about one in six) this sets off a series of
events that injure the brain-gut-immune system. By the time they are
ready to receive the MMR vaccination, their immune system is so
impaired in a great number of these children that the triple vaccine
cannot be handled by the now dysfunctional immune system and they
begin their obvious descent into the autistic spectrum
disorder."---Jaquelyn McCandless, M.D

On 1 Jan 2004 10:16:10 -0800, (john) wrote:

"As a clinician, my current belief which guides my practice with these
children is that any child given the HepB vaccination at birth and
subsequent boosters along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of
neurotoxin in the form of the ethyl mercury in the thimerosal
preservative used in the vaccine. In any child with a genetic immune
susceptibility (probably about one in six) this sets off a series of
events that injure the brain-gut-immune system. By the time they are
ready to receive the MMR vaccination, their immune system is so
impaired in a great number of these children that the triple vaccine
cannot be handled by the now dysfunctional immune system and they
begin their obvious descent into the autistic spectrum
disorder."---Jaquelyn McCandless, M.D

Hypothesis: MMR and mercury cause autism.
Problem: Evidence contradicts this theory.
Solution: Make up new "facts" to support your hypothesis rather than
reject the hypothesis. (And don't bother to prove the new "facts.")

The earth is flat, but the reason why boats seem to disappear at the
horizon is because light waves bend downwards so very slightly that,
at short distances, they appear to travel in straight lines, but at a
great distance such as from a boat at the horizon, the light will bend
down and contact the surface of the ocean, interrupting its travel, so
that the boat will seem to disappear.

Hypothesis: The earth is flat.
Problem: Evidence contradicts this theory.
Solution: Make up new "facts" to support your hypothesis rather than
reject the hypothesis. (And don't bother to prove the new "facts.")

PF

(PF Riley) wrote in message

Hypothesis: MMR and mercury cause autism.
Problem: Evidence contradicts this theory.

"Evidnce" in your case is Propaganda:

1. You need to get the leading independent autism expert on side
first:

"The evidence that vaccines are a major cause of the increase comes
from a number of directions. One direction that's been largely ignored
are the laboratory studies. There are at least seven laboratory
studies, clinical studies, of blood, cerebral, spinal fluid, biopsies
of autistic children which show huge differences between autistic
children and normal children in terms of the presence of things like
measles vaccine virus in their intestinal tract, for example, or their
neurons. So, there's one line of evidence. Another, of course, is
that we have data from thousands of parents who testify, often with
videotapes and photographs and eyewitness reports, that their kid was
perfectly normal. And they can demonstrate it, as I say, very
conclusively with tapes until after the vaccine. The kid retreated
into autism. There's just converging evidence from many, many
directions."-- (Nov 2002) Bernard Rimland PhD
http://www.whale.to/v/rimland2.html

2. the evidence of hundreds of parents with video to back it up IS
GOOD EVIDENCE. It is propaganda to say it isn't. With a jury, not
some bought and paid for judge, (not to mention all the bought
experts) you wouldn't stand a chance.

3. The studies you produce are just propaganda:

"Dr. Rimland also took the opportunity to comment on the controversial
Danish study, rejecting it as "another propaganda piece intended to
assuage
the public's concerns rather than shed light on the MMR-Autism
connection." http://www.whale.to/a/danish.html

The great Finnish study was financed by Merck!
http://www.whale.to/v/mmr37.html

The great Taylor study--he wont even show anyone his workings!
http://www.whale.to/v/taylor1.html

" The Taylor study is seriously flawed in many ways, as had been noted
in a number of letters to the editor of The Lancet and in a number of
additional letters on the subject which have been posted on the
internet. It was subject to strong attack at a recent meeting of the
British Statistical Society. I have been a full-time researcher my
entire professional life, for almost 50 years, and I respectfully
asked Dr. Taylor for a copy of the data so that I could reanalyze
them. He refused this ordinary professional courtesy, and I have
subsequently written to the editor of The Lancet requesting that an
impartial committee be asked to reexamine Dr. Taylor's statistical
methods. If he refuses again, I urged The Lancet to retract his
paper."--Dr Rimland

4. the scientists actually STUDYING THE CHILDREN, like Wakefield say
it is UNSAFE. http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr58.html And you want to
believe some fraudulent or junk science studies that only study
STATISTICS.

"Cawadias (1953) has said that "the history of medicine has shown
that, whenever medicine has strayed from clinical observation, the
result has been chaos, stagnation, and disaster."--British Medical
Journal, Oct 8th, 1955, p.867 (Quoted in Clinical Medical Discoveries
by Beddow Bayly)

5. Parents usually believe your industry actually is after the TRUTH.
LOL, when did the vaccine/drug industry ever give a toss about the
truth when it comes to a trillion $$ industry? The poor mugs think
you did all those studies on STATISTICS to uncover the truth!!!

"Epidemiology is like a bikini. What is revealed is interesting. What
is concealed is crucial"

We all know they lie like dogs every day. They say here MMR doesn't
KILL when they have paid out for MMR deaths, and so on.

They use cheap propaganda ploys like "authority" almost daily.

6. Remember the last one they withdrew as UNSAFE
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr15.html

Gives you great confidence in what they say on this one doesn't it
pharma boy?

How the government vaccine spokespeople take funding from the MMR
makers. Wow, that sure gives me confidence in what they say. Our
vaccine committee reads like a drug company employee list
http://www.doh.gov.uk/jcvi/interests.htm

7. Remember how they withdrew it YEARS after they knew it was unsafe?

"I believe the documents clearly reveal how the central government hid
undesirable data and delayed discontinuation of the (MMR) vaccine,"
lawyer Tatsuro Shigemura said."--Media 2002

8. How the Japanese wont use MMR as they consider it UNSAFE and single
vaccines safer http://www.whale.to/v/mmrjapan1.html

Solution: Make up new "facts" to support your hypothesis rather than
reject the hypothesis. (And don't bother to prove the new "facts.")

9. And pharamboy why wont you use vitamin C which will prevent
deaths?

10. And you never proved measles vaccine eliminated measles deaths
anyway as deaths had declined by 99.4% before vaccination

I could go on but you get the picture

The great laugh about your flat earth story is that you have never
found what causes autism but you somehow know it isn't vaccines. The
Emperor is stark staring naked and it is not a pretty sight. I have
found a drawing of your Sacred Cow by the way
http://www.whale.to/v/vaccination.html

I worship Truth pharmaboy, not some cow. Get a new totem

Oh and just because you keep repeating the mantra "studies ahve shown
MMR doesn't cause autism" doesn't make it so, it's just "repetition
propaganda ploy"



john

"Physicians have taken the place of priests; vaccination plays the
same initiatory role as baptism, and is accompanied by the same
threats and fears; the search for health has replaced the quest for
salvation; the fight against disease has replaced the fight against
sin; eradication of viruses has taken the place of exorcising demons;
the hope of physical immortality (cloning, genetic engineering) has
been substituted for the hope of eternal life; pills have replaced
the sacrament of bread and wine; donations to cancer research take
precedence over donations to the church; a hypothetical universal
vaccine could save humanity from all its illnesses, as the Saviour has
saved the world from all its sins; the medical power has become the
government's ally, as was the Catholic Church in the past;
"charlatans" are persecuted today as "heretics" were yesterday;
dogmatism rules out promising alternative medical theories; the same
absence of individual responsibility is now found in medicine, as
previously in the Christian religion; patients are alienated from
their bodies, as sinners used to be from their souls."---Olivier Clerc


The earth is flat, but the reason why boats seem to disappear at the
horizon is because light waves bend downwards so very slightly that,
at short distances, they appear to travel in straight lines, but at a
great distance such as from a boat at the horizon, the light will bend
down and contact the surface of the ocean, interrupting its travel, so
that the boat will seem to disappear.

Hypothesis: The earth is flat.
Problem: Evidence contradicts this theory.
Solution: Make up new "facts" to support your hypothesis rather than
reject the hypothesis. (And don't bother to prove the new "facts.")

PF

Let us analyze John's reply to my posting in the context of:

Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science [Reference A]
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...ics/signs.html

and

Distinguishing Science and Pseudoscience [Reference B]
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html

Let's begin!

On 2 Jan 2004 01:19:19 -0800, (john) wrote:

(PF Riley) wrote in message

Hypothesis: MMR and mercury cause autism.
Problem: Evidence contradicts this theory.

"Evidnce" in your case is Propaganda:

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.

1. You need to get the leading independent autism expert on side
first:

[b] Pseudoscience appeals to false authority...

"The evidence that vaccines are a major cause of the increase comes
from a number of directions. One direction that's been largely ignored
are the laboratory studies. There are at least seven laboratory
studies, clinical studies, of blood, cerebral, spinal fluid, biopsies
of autistic children which show huge differences between autistic
children and normal children in terms of the presence of things like
measles vaccine virus in their intestinal tract, for example, or their
neurons. So, there's one line of evidence.

[b] Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.
[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.

Another, of course, is
that we have data from thousands of parents who testify, often with
videotapes and photographs and eyewitness reports, that their kid was
perfectly normal. And they can demonstrate it, as I say, very
conclusively with tapes until after the vaccine. The kid retreated
into autism. There's just converging evidence from many, many
directions."-- (Nov 2002) Bernard Rimland PhD
http://www.whale.to/v/rimland2.html

[A] Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.
[b] Pseudoscience relies heavily on subjective validation.
[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.
[b] Pseudoscientific "explanations" tend to be by scenario.

2. the evidence of hundreds of parents with video to back it up IS
GOOD EVIDENCE. It is propaganda to say it isn't. With a jury, not
some bought and paid for judge, (not to mention all the bought
experts) you wouldn't stand a chance.

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.
[A] Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

3. The studies you produce are just propaganda:

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.

"Dr. Rimland also took the opportunity to comment on the controversial
Danish study, rejecting it as "another propaganda piece intended to
assuage
the public's concerns rather than shed light on the MMR-Autism
connection." http://www.whale.to/a/danish.html

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.
[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

The great Finnish study was financed by Merck!
http://www.whale.to/v/mmr37.html

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

The great Taylor study--he wont even show anyone his workings!
http://www.whale.to/v/taylor1.html

" The Taylor study is seriously flawed in many ways, as had been noted
in a number of letters to the editor of The Lancet and in a number of
additional letters on the subject which have been posted on the
internet. It was subject to strong attack at a recent meeting of the
British Statistical Society. I have been a full-time researcher my
entire professional life, for almost 50 years, and I respectfully
asked Dr. Taylor for a copy of the data so that I could reanalyze
them. He refused this ordinary professional courtesy, and I have
subsequently written to the editor of The Lancet requesting that an
impartial committee be asked to reexamine Dr. Taylor's statistical
methods. If he refuses again, I urged The Lancet to retract his
paper."--Dr Rimland

[Comment: Well, did they? Or is the Lancet "in" on the "conspiracy,"
too?]

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.

4. the scientists actually STUDYING THE CHILDREN, like Wakefield say
it is UNSAFE. http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr58.html And you want to
believe some fraudulent or junk science studies that only study
STATISTICS.

[b] Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.
[b] Pseudoscience begins with a hypothesis -- usually one which is
appealing emotionally, and spectacularly implausible -- and then looks
only for items which appear to support it.
[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.
[b] Pseudoscience appeals to false authority, to emotion [i.e., "THE
CHILDREN"], sentiment, or distrust of established fact.
[b] Pseudoscience appeals to the truth-criteria of scientific
methodology while simultaneously denying their validity.

"Cawadias (1953) has said that "the history of medicine has shown
that, whenever medicine has strayed from clinical observation, the
result has been chaos, stagnation, and disaster."--British Medical
Journal, Oct 8th, 1955, p.867 (Quoted in Clinical Medical Discoveries
by Beddow Bayly)

[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

5. Parents usually believe your industry actually is after the TRUTH.
LOL, when did the vaccine/drug industry ever give a toss about the
truth when it comes to a trillion $$ industry? The poor mugs think
you did all those studies on STATISTICS to uncover the truth!!!

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

"Epidemiology is like a bikini. What is revealed is interesting. What
is concealed is crucial"

[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

We all know they lie like dogs every day. They say here MMR doesn't
KILL when they have paid out for MMR deaths, and so on.

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.
[b] Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

They use cheap propaganda ploys like "authority" almost daily.

[b] Pseudoscience often contradicts itself, even in its own terms.

[See the appeal to authority (referring to Rimland as a "leading
independent autism expert") above, then complaining about appeal to
authority later in the same posting.]

6. Remember the last one they withdrew as UNSAFE
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr15.html

[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

Gives you great confidence in what they say on this one doesn't it
pharma boy?

[Comment: Actually, yes. I would be more concerned if they DIDN'T
withdraw a vaccine that proved harmful. Active surveillance and
removal of unsafe products gives me great confidence. A company that
NEVER issues any recalls or withdraws any products either (1) makes
perfect products (highly unlikely to impossible) or (2) doesn't do
quality checks.]

How the government vaccine spokespeople take funding from the MMR
makers. Wow, that sure gives me confidence in what they say. Our
vaccine committee reads like a drug company employee list
http://www.doh.gov.uk/jcvi/interests.htm

[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

7. Remember how they withdrew it YEARS after they knew it was unsafe?

"I believe the documents clearly reveal how the central government hid
undesirable data and delayed discontinuation of the (MMR) vaccine,"
lawyer Tatsuro Shigemura said."--Media 2002

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.

8. How the Japanese wont use MMR as they consider it UNSAFE and single
vaccines safer http://www.whale.to/v/mmrjapan1.html

[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.

Solution: Make up new "facts" to support your hypothesis rather than
reject the hypothesis. (And don't bother to prove the new "facts.")

9. And pharamboy why wont you use vitamin C which will prevent
deaths?

?

I wonder what John's EEG would have looked like when he typed this
non-sequitur.

10. And you never proved measles vaccine eliminated measles deaths
anyway as deaths had declined by 99.4% before vaccination

[b] Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.
[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.

I could go on but you get the picture

The great laugh about your flat earth story is that you have never
found what causes autism but you somehow know it isn't vaccines. The
Emperor is stark staring naked and it is not a pretty sight. I have
found a drawing of your Sacred Cow by the way
http://www.whale.to/v/vaccination.html

[b] Pseudoscience argues from ignorance, an elementary fallacy.

"Many pseudoscientists base their claims on incompleteness of
information about nature, rather than on what is known at present. But
no claim can possibly be supported by lack of information. The fact
that [no one knows what causes autism] means only that [no one knows
what causes autism]. This fact is not evidence that [vaccines (or
anything else you want to blame) cause autism].

I worship Truth pharmaboy, not some cow. Get a new totem

Oh and just because you keep repeating the mantra "studies ahve shown
MMR doesn't cause autism" doesn't make it so, it's just "repetition
propaganda ploy"

[b] Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.
[b] Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence.
[b] Pseudoscience attempts to persuade with rhetoric, propaganda, and
misrepresentation rather than valid evidence (which presumably does
not exist).

PF

(CBI) wrote:

"Jay" wrote in message . net...
Some people want baby to have 3 separate M - M - R shots. Why? If they
fear a reaction, wouldnt it be the same chance since the ingredients would
be the same in each separate as compared to the one MMR?

The one advantage is that if there was a reaction you would know which
component did it and be able to give the other two with more safety. I
think this is a small gain that is more than outweighed by the big
negative of needing 6 trips to get the vaccine rather than two.

This is the reason that the anti-vaccination liars want separate
injections. More doctors trips means more expense and inconvenience,
and would therefore almost inevitably lead to fewer children having
the full set of injections. This would assist the liars' agenda of
having more children susceptible to preventable diseases.

And if you don't think they want to see more dead children, join one
of their mailing lists and see the joy at each announcement of another
child dying of something like the flu.

--
Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

(PF Riley) wrote in message ...
Let us analyze John's reply to my posting in the context of:

Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science [Reference A]
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...ics/signs.html

and

Distinguishing Science and Pseudoscience [Reference B]
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html

Yawn.

First warning sign, an article from a pseudo independent-from-industry
site--quackwatch. A drug company front site. So it is written,
effectively, by the vaccine/drug industry. Interesting as a piece of
industry propaganda. Believe that if you want to be misled.

Dr Victor Herbert, Stephen Barrett and William Jarvis are on the
Scientific Board of the American Council on Science and Health.
Founded in 1978, this organisation is funded solely by the large
pharmaceutical and chemical companies, the AMA and industry supported
Foundations. http://www.whale.to/a/quackwatch.html



Let's begin!

Yawn

[A] The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work.

Gosh, we live in Noddy and Big Ears land where the trillion ££ medical
industry would never dream of suppressing non-patentable (by them
especially) drugs or cover up vaccine damage that would BUST their
companies. Pity history proves otherwise
http://www.whale.to/m/therapies.html

NB: Wakefield had his funding withdrawn and had to leave his place of
work. Also the funding for the MMR litigation was withdrawn (even
though it's a pittance), also some MMR damaged childen were refused
spinal taps in this country and had to go to the US.


1. You need to get the leading independent autism expert on side
first:

[b] Pseudoscience appeals to false authority...

THE leading independent expert on autism a "false" authority. I don't
think so.


[b] Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.

Yeah, that covers the fact 98% of allopathic drugs don't work.


[A] Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal.

Yes, an industry propaganda belief. No wonder they like to rubbish
that. Ten or so anecdotal maybe, but hundreds or thousands of MMR
damage. I don't think so

Reams of pharma drivel deleted

If you want to see some decent work on propaganda
http://www.whale.to/m/map.html

(PF Riley) wrote in message ...
Let us analyze John's reply to my posting in the context of:

Oh yeah, what were you saying.

[b] Pseudoscience appeals to false authority...

Like quackwatch industry articles. You can see the brainwashing in action he


Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science [Reference A]
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...ics/signs.html

and

Distinguishing Science and Pseudoscience [Reference B]
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cs/pseudo.html